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Upgraded Ittok LVII vs Ekos 2

retseldrib

retseldrib

pfm Member
In theory (or preferably experience of) would an Ittok with upgraded horizontal and vertical bearings with a rewire “beat” an Ekos 2?

I am planning to upgrade my LP12 in a months time and while its apart have an Ekos 2 or upgraded Ittok LVII fitted.

Aesthetically, I much prefer my Ittok but understand that the upgrade with modern bearings and rewire will surpass an Ekos 2.
 
Johnnie Nilson (J7) is the man you want to talk to but I suspect it would probably be so close as to be irrelevant. I bought an Ittok off a guy a few months ago and he thought the Ekos that replaced it wasn't any better.

Bottom line is that the differences between arms of such similar construction are actually pretty small, similar to upgrading a cable or cartridge, and putting the extra money into upgrading the deck itself gives a bigger hit.

I too think the silver Ittok looks better but they are very old now and time has caught up with them. Look at the RB2000/3000
 
Mr Pig said:
Johnnie Nilson (J7) is the man you want to talk to but I suspect it would probably be so close as to be irrelevant. I bought an Ittok off a guy a few months ago and he thought the Ekos that replaced it wasn't any better.

Bottom line is that the differences between arms of such similar construction are actually pretty small, similar to upgrading a cable or cartridge, and putting the extra money into upgrading the deck itself gives a bigger hit.

I too think the silver Ittok looks better but they are very old now and time has caught up with them. Look at the RB2000/3000
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The Ekos sold pretty well back in the day when you could do a direct comparison between it and an Ittok. The Ekos was not cheap either, it was more than what I spent for my LP12/Ittok at the time I bought them new.. A common A/B was Ittok/Troika vs Ekos/K18 through a Linn preamp that could handle both inputs.

For those looking to improve their system at the time it made sense. I bought the Lingo in 1992, Cirkus in 1993 and acquired a demo Eko2 in late ‘97. It was the last of my big Linn upgrades. Don’t regret having it as it was a significant improvement over my Ittok with the removed lift mechanism. Still have the Ittok which is perfect working order.
 
The PITA is the armboard.

If you rustle-up a cheap one and find a s/h Nima........................... It kicked my Ittok into the very distant long grass. You may or may not find likewise. I compared ARO to Nima and there was not a huge difference, nothing remotely sufficient to justify the price difference.

To some extent things will depend on cart'. The more there is invested in that, the more differences between tonearms are likely to appear.
 
Mr Pig said:
Unipivots have a particular sound which is not for everyone. They are excellent at some things and not very good at others. I wouldn't want one.
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IMHO this is true of unipivot arms in the main, but there are exceptions.

Our WAND PLUS unipivot tonearm delivers superb bass depth, weight and speed and this is an area where many unipivot arms disappoint.
 
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SONDEKNZ said:
Our WAND PLUS unipivot tonearm delivers superb bass depth, weight and speed and this is an area where many unipivot arms disappoint.
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I'm not saying you're wrong, I've never heard it, but the people who love certain products will always make great claims about them. Everyone who'd chosen to buy an Aro, by definition, loved it and would wax lyrical about how much better than an Ittok/Ekos it was. And sure, in some way it is indeed significantly better but I still don't want one.
 
Thanks for all the replies - given that the bearings used to upgrade the Ittok are now polished to higher degree the question is will that now surpass the bearings of the Ekos.

The question is not an Ekos 2 against a standard Ittok.

Mr Pig thinks that the difference would be minimal in favour of?
 
retseldrib said:
Thanks for all the replies - given that the bearings used to upgrade the Ittok are now polished to higher degree the question is will that now surpass the bearings of the Ekos.

The question is not an Ekos 2 against a standard Ittok.

Mr Pig thinks that the difference would be minimal in favour of?
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Structurally, there is not much difference between them. The main improvement on the Ekos is better bearings and tolerances so yes, I think an upgraded Ittok would be similar or better than an Ekos.

I recently got an Akito upgraded by Johnnie and he said that an Akito 1 with the bearing fixed is better than an Akito 3. The rest of the arm is similar, the difference is in the detail. Makes sense to me?
 
Mr Pig said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, I've never heard it, but the people who love certain products will always make great claims about them. Everyone who'd chosen to buy an Aro, by definition, loved it and would wax lyrical about how much better than an Ittok/Ekos it was. And sure, in some way it is indeed significantly better but I still don't want one.
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I agree.

But there are those who love their ARO tonearms, even while agreeing with its limitations.

They just love what it does well… and that’s good enough.
 
SONDEKNZ said:
I agree.

But there are those who love their ARO tonearms, even while agreeing with its limitations.

They just love what it does well… and that’s good enough.
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Yes, absolutely. The issue is when people assert that a product is universally better while being blind to its limitations. Every owner of the Aro I have met insists that it's better than the Ekos but they never mention the areas where it is not.

Years ago I was invited to someone's house to hear his system. Guy worked in a hi-fi shop which sold all the hi end 'round earth' still I don't like! But he insisted it did the flat earth still too. Had great 'prat', dynamics etc. I kid you not, it was one of the worst sounding systems I've ever heard! And it was not cheap.

Point is that you cannot take anyone's word on the performance of their favourite products.
 
Its like Andys assertion that the Ittok is preferrable to the Ekos, its easy to ridicule this as total lunacy, but clearly according to Andys priority set the Ittok does something the Ekos doesnt. Personally I think the Aro is a complete Dog , ive never understood what people hear it doing that is so attractive, but obviously for some its the dogs doo dahs. Old news is that the only way to tell is to listen for yourself, and asking the question on a forum is only going to ilicit lots of frankly irrelevent opinion.
 
david ellwood said:
Its like Andys assertion that the Ittok is preferrable to the Ekos, its easy to ridicule this as total lunacy, but clearly according to Andys priority set the Ittok does something the Ekos doesnt. Personally I think the Aro is a complete Dog , ive never understood what people hear it doing that is so attractive, but obviously for some its the dogs doo dahs. Old news is that the only way to tell is to listen for yourself, and asking the question on a forum is only going to ilicit lots of frankly irrelevent opinion.
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There is not really a good way to test this, David unless someone had an upgraded Ittok.
Given that you know what an Ekos 2 sounds like then an Ittok with upgraded bearings plus a rewire would theoretically sound the same as the Ekos 2?
 
The differences between the Ekos and the Ittok are fundamental to the construction materials , The ittok LV3 MK2 is a massive improvement on the LV2 but its still a long way behind an Ekos.

I suppose its down to value for money , how much is it going to cost to send your arm away for the rewire and bearing upgrade?

I personally doubt it turns the Ittok into a dramatically different arm, and given its going to be a punt, there is a risk that you spend big on work that makes little difference , or potentially makes the arm worse.
 
Back in the day I felt the Ekos 2 was a considerable improvement on the Ittock I had before. Similar character but with the major faults resolved. I would imagine that a substantial proportion of Ekos owners have previously owned an Ittock and it seems to me that only a tiny minority prefer the Ittock, and in fact had the difference not been significant the Ekos just wouldn't have sold in the first place.

Whether the LP12 based systems of yesteryear actually represent good VFM or offer acceptable performance in today's market is a different question entirely and in my view they don't.
 
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You think theres any significant change to the market in the last 20 years?

Digital is as relevent now as it was in 2004. Give the vinyl revival , maybe less so?
 
The LP12 I had in 2004 (which was actually about top of the line in 2000) had become more than slightly embarrassed by the digital Kit I owned then and I certainly wasn't about to spend a couple of grand getting it a Keel and more than as much again on an EkosSE. The Radikal hadn't arrived at that time. At the time the LP12 would have been about 4.5K and my digital kit would have cost about £6K. Since then Digital has got cheaper and better but the LP12 has got ever more expensive so we're now in the realms of a £25K turntable being required to compete with a £800 DAC.

I found a better TT option with Michell/Graham and that does still sound OK compared with Digital but any version of the LP12 with the old AC motor probably wouldn't. Admittedly at new prices today that combo would be north of 10 to 15 grand.

Even that TT now looks a little hard to justify, particularly as Hi Res streaming becomes more widely available. I suspect it's days are numbered along with that ridiculously space consuming record collection that goes with it.

I'd say that sort of price/performance change over those 20 years is certainly significant.
 
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