Uncharted territory

[Mullardman]

May be curious to try out LFD at some future point, but the Sonneteer hasn't put a foot wrong, so no immediate plans.

Obviously a huge number of caveats around this. I don't know what system you have, what sound you are looking for, etc...
But.. it just so happens that my LFD purchase was the result of an (almost) straight fight between LFD and Sonneteer.

I decided to move on from my big valve monos and valve pre. So, I asked the lads at Brady's in Warrington to demo a couple of amps in the £3k region. I did mention I was interested in hearing LFD. They set up for me to hear the LFD Zero MkV and the Sonneteer Orton, through small monitor type speakers, similar to what I have. They chose the Sonneteer because they knew I'd been into valves and it had a rep for a 'valvey' sound.

Frankly, the demo was a bit inconclusive. I liked both, but my initial impression was that the LFD was a little 'small' sounding and the Sonneteer was nice, but not right in some way. On the other hand, the Sonneteer was 'edging it' due to its looks, remote facility etc.
I had to wait a few days for the two amps to become available for home dem, and along the way arranged to home dem a little Sugden too.. from another dealer.
I spent a day, assisted by a fellow geek, swapping the three amps in and out of my system...
The Sugden was nice enough but not really up to driving my speakers, so was the first to be eliminated.

In my system, the Sonneteer was a bit of a puzzle, until the penny dropped. It was 'throwing', a huge soundstage, but one in which it seemed that everything was everywhere. There was no 'pinpoint' stereo imaging.

By contrast, the LFD just got on with it. Clear stereo imaging, depth and a sense of the tonal accuracy and 'presence', which I like, but, crucially, no drama, no 'histrionics', just music. I bought it and paid £100 extra for shiny control knobs, to replace the 'hammerite' finish that was standard. Just a little thing, to alleviate the relentlessly 'utilitarian' looks. I haven't regretted it for a minute.
In fairness the Sonneteer was cheaper, offered arguably better looks, and remote, and was a little less powerful.. but not hugely so, and my speakers aren't that difficult to drive.
My only criticism of the LFD would be its endearingly determined 'cottage industry' personna. There are no graphics whatever on the front panel, apart from the LFD logo. The RCA sockets at the rear, are very close together, which can make plugging and unplugging stuff a little awkward, but beyond that, no complaints and an awful lot to like.
I'd recommend anybody to try LFD.

 

[oddball72]

So I'm running a Sonneteer Alabaster into ProAc D20r, for what I listen they complement very well. I am always on the look out for an Orton but they're like hens teeth. I think the earlier suggestion of living with the setup to really be able to evaluate future changes makes a lot of sense, especially if there's nothing specifically bugging you about what you hear. If I spot an LFD at a sensible price in the next couple years I might have to give in and try it

 

[tones]

So I suppose I'm wondering, have any on you arrived at the same place, and what was the system that hit the spot, and what did you do to stop the itch to change things, and simply enjoy the music.

The realisation that all decent equipment sounds good, and constant chopping and changing gets one nowhere. Of course, if you like chopping and changing and you're happy that you hear a difference, go for it. I always value the comment of the late John Borwick (former audio editor of Gramophone) to me, on the subject of cables specifically, but to me it applies to the rest of hi-fi - "I would never deny the right of someone to give his super-system a birthday present, if paying over the odds makes him feel better".

 

[Jim Audiomisc]

I settled on QUAD ESLs and my old Armstrong 700 series / QUAD pre (modified) setup for main audio about 30-40 years ago. Second system tends to also use modded Quad pre and both a 700 power and an old rebuilt Armstrong 626 driving some LS35A's Never found or hear any reason to change them. Spent the money on more music and books to enjoy. As an Injuneer I have an interest in getting close to 'perfect'. The scientist in me likes to investigate how things work, etc. As a music lover I just focus on the music.

 

[jfs]

It's funny how our tastes/appreciation of music reproduction evolve. Up until about 10 years ago, I would alter wadding distribution in the speakers, swap electrolytics for polypropylene caps, change perfectly good interconnects for something that sounded different, play with positioning, modify perfectly good amps and generally look for nirvana. I then realised that what I was looking for was a reproduction as if I were playing the instruments, wanting to hear a little deeper bass, less forward midrange etc. essentially making the artist and recording engineer redundant, what an idiot. It took me 40 odd years of fiddling to realise that.
Now I'm very much settled on no wow factor, just a lovely pipe and slipper system that reveals everything I need and plays all the right notes without highlighting any part of the audio spectrum abnormally and as the artist and recording hopefully intended, anything missing the little grey cells fill in for me.
System, which will remain unchanged unless catastrophe strikes :
Sony cdp 930 qs ( as transport ) tried dedicated transports, didn't cut it, Lenco GL75 modified plinth and Mission 774 arm, Denon DL160
Arcam rdac
Sugden 21a, 25wpc
JR149
JR Passive Subwoofer
Probably not Hi Fi by todays standards but a lovely system that does very little wrong and a great deal right.

 

[James Evans]

Obviously a huge number of caveats around this. I don't know what system you have, what sound you are looking for, etc...
But.. it just so happens that my LFD purchase was the result of an (almost) straight fight between LFD and Sonneteer.

I decided to move on from my big valve monos and valve pre. So, I asked the lads at Brady's in Warrington to demo a couple of amps in the £3k region. I did mention I was interested in hearing LFD. They set up for me to hear the LFD Zero MkV and the Sonneteer Orton, through small monitor type speakers, similar to what I have. They chose the Sonneteer because they knew I'd been into valves and it had a rep for a 'valvey' sound.

Frankly, the demo was a bit inconclusive. I liked both, but my initial impression was that the LFD was a little 'small' sounding and the Sonneteer was nice, but not right in some way. On the other hand, the Sonneteer was 'edging it' due to its looks, remote facility etc.
I had to wait a few days for the two amps to become available for home dem, and along the way arranged to home dem a little Sugden too.. from another dealer.
I spent a day, assisted by a fellow geek, swapping the three amps in and out of my system...
The Sugden was nice enough but not really up to driving my speakers, so was the first to be eliminated.

In my system, the Sonneteer was a bit of a puzzle, until the penny dropped. It was 'throwing', a huge soundstage, but one in which it seemed that everything was everywhere. There was no 'pinpoint' stereo imaging.

By contrast, the LFD just got on with it. Clear stereo imaging, depth and a sense of the tonal accuracy and 'presence', which I like, but, crucially, no drama, no 'histrionics', just music. I bought it and paid £100 extra for shiny control knobs, to replace the 'hammerite' finish that was standard. Just a little thing, to alleviate the relentlessly 'utilitarian' looks. I haven't regretted it for a minute.
In fairness the Sonneteer was cheaper, offered arguably better looks, and remote, and was a little less powerful.. but not hugely so, and my speakers aren't that difficult to drive.
My only criticism of the LFD would be its endearingly determined 'cottage industry' personna. There are no graphics whatever on the front panel, apart from the LFD logo. The RCA sockets at the rear, are very close together, which can make plugging and unplugging stuff a little awkward, but beyond that, no complaints and an awful lot to like.
I'd recommend anybody to try LFD.

That mirrors my experience as well, although I was lower down the food chain with the Campion and LFD PAO, but, same experience, the Campion was here first, and I liked it, but with the LFD in place I found the same thing, the Campion was almost acting like a diffuser, whereas with the LFD things suddenly snapped into focus. (as ever, sold both of them eventually, 2nd LFD to pass through here, would try another)

 

[Mick P]

There is an old saying, boring is best and my approach is boring and think it is the best.

I originally ran a typical 1970s Sansui cabinet system that was a TT, CDP, Tuner and Cassette systems all fitted into a cabinet with glass doors and a pair of Sansui floor stand speakers. It was ok but nothing special.

One day around 1985/6 we were having Sunday lunch and the bloody amp caught fire and burst into flames. I unplugged it and put the fire out. I rang a friend who was a bit of a Hifi freak and he recommended a Naim amp/power amp system, a Garrard TT and Linn speakers. I then popped down to the newsagent and bought one of those Trade Mags that had adverts for everything, mainly second hand and local.

Someone was advertising a Naim 32.5 / Hicap /NAP 140 and a TT whose brand I forget and a pair Linn Saras on the correct stands. Fortunately he lived a five minute walk away, I listened to it with Mrs Mick, we both liked it, he wanted £600 for it and I waved a wad of £400 and it was deal done. He set the thing up as well. I bunged him a bottle of malt whisky for that.

The system was brilliant and the best we had ever heard and that was it, we became Naim fans.

We kept that system for about ten years, had it fully serviced by Naim and was perfectly happy.

We then decided to put the system into the dining room and bought a 52/250 with Linn Briks to put in the lounge. I also bought a Garrard 401 which Terry O'Sullivan gave a full service. It had a Loricraft plinth fitted, a Naim Aro, a Loricraft PSU.

I then made a final upgrade, the result was a main system 52/300/ Loricraft 401/CDS3/NAT01 with the Briks. I kept this system because it was good but replaced the Briks a few years ago with Shahinian Arks. I have no urge to upgrade. Don't faff about is the best approach. When you are happy, waste your time on something else as equally daft.

The dining room system is the old 32.5/Hicap/250 (JV's favourite system) with a CDX, NAT05 with a pair of SBLs. This systems is still going strong.

I am content with that but last year I bought a Sonos Amp with some Dali Oberon 1 speakers for the place in Spain. I like the streaming but it ain't good Hifi so I may buy a Naim streamer, NAIT 50 and a pair of Dali Minuet SE speakers.

The Sonos amp system will go in the bedroom.

 

[Woodface]

I have recently, after 32 years of gradual revisions, arrived at a setup that I cannot find fault with.

As the title says this is uncharted territory for me as there's always been a niggle, something that was never quite right. Bass wasn't tight enough, instrument separation wasn't great etc etc... To to be fair, as an engineer, I like tinkering and modifying and seeing the effects. But I can't think of anything specifically wrong, or where to even begin to make any greater gains. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that it can't be improved upon, but I have no idea which component i would start with if I did want to change.

So I suppose I'm wondering, have any on you arrived at the same place, and what was the system that hit the spot, and what did you do to stop the itch to change things, and simply enjoy the music.

Share your system details & someone will be along to tell you what’s wrong with it

 

[SamB1]

It's funny how our tastes/appreciation of music reproduction evolve. Up until about 10 years ago, I would alter wadding distribution in the speakers, swap electrolytics for polypropylene caps, change perfectly good interconnects for something that sounded different, play with positioning, modify perfectly good amps and generally look for nirvana. I then realised that what I was looking for was a reproduction as if I were playing the instruments, wanting to hear a little deeper bass, less forward midrange etc. essentially making the artist and recording engineer redundant, what an idiot. It took me 40 odd years of fiddling to realise that.
Now I'm very much settled on no wow factor, just a lovely pipe and slipper system that reveals everything I need and plays all the right notes without highlighting any part of the audio spectrum abnormally and as the artist and recording hopefully intended, anything missing the little grey cells fill in for me.
System, which will remain unchanged unless catastrophe strikes :
Sony cdp 930 qs ( as transport ) tried dedicated transports, didn't cut it, Lenco GL75 modified plinth and Mission 774 arm, Denon DL160
Arcam rdac
Sugden 21a, 25wpc
JR149
JR Passive Subwoofer
Probably not Hi Fi by todays standards but a lovely system that does very little wrong and a great deal right.

I have a lot of speakers and a lot of amps, but when I do slip my JR149's into the rotation, usually connected these days to a Quad 303, I wonder why I just don't sell off the rest of stuff. That combo does everything that my ears enjoy easily as much as any other gear i own. On every type of music. Small footprint too!

As I get on in years, I appreciate simple, well built gear more then ever.

 

[les24preludes]

As I get on in years, I appreciate simple, well built gear more then ever.

Copy that..... Plus nothing over 12 kilos. Possible exception of speakers.

If it's valves, a separate power supply please! Split heavy things into two, or use monoblocks.

 

[SamB1]

Copy that..... Plus nothing over 12 kilos. Possible exception of speakers.

If it's valves, a separate power supply please! Split heavy things into two, or use monoblocks.

I do like my McIntosh MC30's, but honestly I could see living with my mini Ayima A07 Max chip mono blocks instead without any issue.

 

[Lurch]

Ha. Been where the OP is, May last year I thought that was it. Journeys end. Brinkmann Bardo 12" Enterprise Mk4, Koetsu RSP, BB3, Lector CDP7TL, Innuos ZeniTH mk3, maxed out Black Ice DSD > MFA Baby Ref > GamuT D200 > ML Summits.
A domestic change in August [upstairs tenant grizzling about my listening habits] led to me spending more time with my 80s system 2 in the front room, consequently I found I preferred system 2s presentation (more organic and human) and hated having to move to the room with the main rig at 5pm when he polluted my world with his sodding telly.
Between October and Xmas I sold off/stopped using everything Barr the BB3, ZeniTH & Black Ice. Replacing it with what I thought was 'good enough' kit. 401/RB250/Cadenza Blue, 6000CDT and Puresound A30 & Arcam Two Plus, that within a month morphed into an Icon Audio ST40 Mk4 SE and SF Toy Towers.
The 401 now has a Solid Sounds plinth, Jelco SA-750D and Per Winfield Ti, CD duties are handled by a Lector CDP 603. The IA amp has also changed to a MasterSounD Compact 845 and the speakers changed to Heco Direkt Zweiklangs and a month latter my current Dreiklangs.
Luckily this has seen me end up with a far better, and to my ears, more organic human sounding system. System 2 on steroids you might say. To top it all off, even with the above expenditure my bank balance is far healthier.
I wouldn't say categorically, That's It, BUT if I was being sensible I would. As without spending an obscene amount (to me) on each component for very small gains I don't see where else I could go.

All I have to do now is break the habit of perusing eBay and the bloody classifieds.