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Tyre trouble

C

clamnell

pfm Member
Flat tyre on the almost worthless but reliable 130,000 mile 1996 diesel Golf, caused by air leaking out of the rim. (Probably scraped along the curb too many times). Currently at the garage and being worked on.

The rim probably hasn't been helped by the large hammer at kwik fit when I took the flat in.

I had figured on a new rim but the garage are saying (a) seal the rim or (b) put a tube in the tyre. He's probably trying to save me money as the car's seen better days .

Sealing the rim sounds sensible to me, if such a thing is possible and brings it back up to good safety levels (?) But am also wondering if putting a tube in a tubeless tyre is sensible and safe...

What say ye?

Thanks!
 
If it's an alloy a polish of the seating area and remount with sealer should work.
Putting a tube in sounds well dodgy.
 
A wire brushing and rim seal usually works, at least for a while.

I don't think its a good idea to put tubes in but don't ask me why.
 
Thanks - not sure if they alloy.

Tube in tubeless doesn't sound right to me either but no idea why not. Friction and blow-out perhaps?

Or maybe it is common practice... I've absolutely no idea.
 
Tubes in tubeless tyre used to be common practice if the puncture damage was too great to plug - modern repair techniques are better. The suggestion is that the stiffer tubeless carcass will generate more heat with a tube but this is probably not an issue with modest performing vehicles.
I imagine a reputable tyre dealer would not suggest anything unsafe or illegal.
 
clamnell said:
But am also wondering if putting a tube in a tubeless tyre is sensible and safe...
Click to expand...

Putting tube (inner tyre) in a tubeless tyre is now very wise:
- it is almost impossible to remove air trapped between (tubeless) tyre and tube when inflating (inner) tube;
- there is constant friction between tyre and inner tube, which lead to higher tyre heating;
- in case of puncture, you can loose air from tube at once/very quickly, which can be very dangerous, especially with front tires (tyre with inner tube can even explode, when punctured).
 
It depends on what you want it to do and how long you want it to last.
If you just clean and bead seal, the ally it will generally but not always leak again in time because it will corrode under the bead again unless treated to stop it oxidising. You just do not know how long it will last.
There is no problem with putting a tube in, I do it all the time but some folk don't like the expense if the tyre only has limited life left.
The best way is either to find a good sound rim or have the inside of you current one properly cleaned and re primed/laquered to give the tyre bead something to seat on that will not suffer further oxidation.
 
Ok, thanks for all the advice. Sealed and tubed until I find a decent wheel rim... they seem to have been melted down for their metal value around here though.
 
Tubes are a bad idea because if you get a puncture the tyre will rapidly deflate (blowout). A nail in a tyre will self seal but an inner tube will just pop. They don't meet British standards, don't do it. Do try sealing the rim or failing that get a good used rim from a scrap yard.

Note, this advice it from my dad who is a high level VOSA officer, he knows his stuff!
 
For heaven's sake, wheels and brakes are the most important things in your car from a safety aspect. You had it right first time. Buy new wheels, and be safe. Skimping in this area really is a crap idea.
 
avole said:
For heaven's sake, wheels and brakes are the most important things in your car from a safety aspect. You had it right first time. Buy new wheels, and be safe. Skimping in this area really is a crap idea.
Click to expand...

A heavy handed way of putting it but you are absolutely right!
 
Fitting a tube was normal 20+ years ago and, so far as I remember, I did not die...
 
Remember that a tube is the only way to repair a wet tyre, as a plug won't stick if it's wet. Remember also that a reputable tyre shop won't do anything unsafe to your car, why would they expose themselves?

Tubes won't work on 60 profile or below as they are too flat and wide.

Rim sealing works but it's laborious and if not done well they leak 6 months later. An alternative I have used on old cars is to get steel rims with good tyres in a breaker. They don't leak.

You don't need to fit new alloys on an old car. Look at breakers and eBay for good used rims, there are oceans out there for Golfs and the like.
 
I feel your pain, but Steve is right along with Avole. By way of consolation I got a puncture on thursday (nail close to the sidewall) and had to have two 275/40s replaced on friday as I like to keep wear rates equal. Expensive afternoon.
 
Cav said:
Fitting a tube was normal 20+ years ago and, so far as I remember, I did not die...
Click to expand...

My father, who is a high level officer for VOSA says it's a bad idea, he is an expert in vehicle safety, he knows what he is talking about. Vehicle safety standards have improved vastly since 20+ years ago, what might have been acceptable back then isn't now. It might do strictly as a spare, it might be a good idea to swap it for the spare.

with a conventional air filled tyre, if you get a nail or something in it, it will usually deflate slowly or not at all even as the tyre seals round it. With an inner tube, the tube pops and the air escapes through the valve hole and the unsealed rim, if that happens at motorway speeds you're screwed and so are the cars around you!
 
As Steve mentioned earlier if the tyre profile is above 60 series then a tube is OK as a stop gap. I don't think anyone is advising not sealing the rim - that would be dangerous/silly. Wire brush/ clean up the rim, fit a tube - fine until you find a new wheel.
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
with a conventional air filled tyre, if you get a nail or something in it, it will usually deflate slowly or not at all even as the tyre seals round it. With an inner tube, the tube pops and the air escapes through the valve hole and the unsealed rim, if that happens at motorway speeds you're screwed and so are the cars around you!
Click to expand...

This doesn't happen with bike tires at 100 PSI so why does it happen with car tires ?
 
linnfomaniac83 said:
with a conventional air filled tyre, if you get a nail or something in it, it will usually deflate slowly or not at all even as the tyre seals round it. With an inner tube, the tube pops and the air escapes through the valve hole and the unsealed rim
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. The tyre and rim will never be completely unsealed. Leaky, but no more so than the tube with the nail. If there's a hazard it's of the tube rubbing inside the tyre. If the tube's the right size this is minimal. I agree a tube in a tubeless isn't ideal but it's a decent running repair on a cooking car. I'm surprised VOSA take a dim view of it because if it were genuinely unsafe they would ban garages from doing it.
 
If logic is applied then we will get to the rational conclusion. No tube is best. Wire wheels never use tubeless tyres (except in some rare situations) and they aren't illegal......Motorbike tyres for wires wheels are all tubed (i would guess). Bike tyres narrower so punctures very unlikely and if you've got something in a tyre it's bleeding obvious.

Conclusion: Repair to manufacturer's standard or face the consequences. Or use tube.
 
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