Tubes/Valves - How Many Are Enough

[Kt77]

Hi Guys,

As I sit here viewing my signal tubes/valves - I'm talking ECC8_ types, and thinking to myself, would 8-10 pairs each of these last me say 10-20 years?, I'm merely curious as I've noticed that quite a few of my friends seem to have drawers/boxes filled with their prized tube/valves. Am I short changing myself here?, as I see it - I'll 55 this May 31st, and am beginning to think about getting enough to last me the rest of my days - on average some of us are blessed to see between 75-80, if we're fortunate that is?.

As, I've started to rethink my tube purchasing pattern - I'm thinking that I'm going to concentrate my efforts on buying preamp/signal tubes during the odd months and quads of power tubes during the even ones - as this would cause a whole lot less stress then trying to buy all of them each month.

But, as I've been thinking about the quantity needed for sometimes now - I'm more then certain that some of you here have been doing a lot longer then I, and really would like to know a ball park figure. As I'd merely like to search out the few selective ones that work perfectly in all three of my tube integrated's - I'm just curious as to when is enough - enough?.

Am, I going after say 15 pairs of each total?, or more?.
As, I've already collected 7 quads of Reflektor 6P14P-EV/EL84's along with SED EL34 Winged =C= versions and 2 quads of TJ Music 300B Mesh Plates ( as I only need 2 for this one amp - I'm looking at adding maybe 3-5 more quads of the EL84's and EL34's as well as 4-6 more quads ( matched pairs ) of the 300B Meshies.

But could really use you guys input on the other tubes - as I don't have a clue as to when to stop?, or should I just buy them up as often as possible before supplies become depleted?, as I'm beginning to see the writing on the wall in this happening to many of the NOS 1950's Long Plates with Square or Foil Strip D - Getters. And I don't think that I'm imagining this.

So, guys what would each of you consider a safe range/number of pairs of said tubes for me to hoard?. As I'd rather be safe then sorry, yet not over do it - as I don't wish to deprive myself of vinyl shopping each month - as vinyl along with the wife and kids are the reason I breath. I can't have one without the other.

Please advise.

Thanks in advance - to those of you whom are willing to dig deep enough to assist me with this.

scar

 

[Steven Toy]

If we all did as you suggest, supplies of the valves we need would run out sooner only to sit in drawers or boxes doing nothing.

Signal valves like ECC82s should last for years anyway.

The power valves that I use are current production so there is no need to hoard them beyond one or matbe two spare sets of each type.

Not all current production types are bad although my favourite ECC82 is the NOS green-print JAN Philips.

 

[GT]

It depends on a number of factors including the design of the equipment, how hard the tubes/valves are run to list a couple. I get about 10-15 years out of power tubes (PX25/300B etc) and about the same from the small signal valves in my phono stage and preamps. However one customer ran his phono stage continuously for 4 years without turning it off and it was just beginning to lose some gain. I make that just over 35,000 hours.

On average you can get up to 10,000 hours out of small signal tubes (depending on the brand and whether they are NOS). Push-pull amplifiers running 70-100 watts generally last about 12-24 months before they will need replacing. Again this is dependant on the equipment make, design and the brand of tube used. Vintage amplifiers like Leak, Quad and Radford et al; owners can expect to get significantly longer tube/valve life, e.g. it is not unusual to get 15-20 years out of original GEC KT66s in Quad II's.

 

[Mike Reed]

Not to mention that you may well change your amplifier(s) a few times or even go deaf before you blow out 80 candles. Mind you, you could always open a valve shop to dispose of your hoard, I s'pose !

Live for the present; the future may be cacophonous holocaust rather than euphonious holograph.

 

[naimplayer]

I think you should get out a little more.
Predict what will occur tomorrow, when you can do that think about storing up components.
No offence intended at all.
Enjoy your music while you can.

 

[ssimon]

scar,
Although I found your post difficult to read, due to the aggressive font you have used, I get your gist.
I would only keep a spare set of your favourite tubes (valves) plus the ones you have tried but not liked so much.
Keeping stashes removes from the market valves which others can use.
Simon

 

[Kt77]

If we all did as you suggest, supplies of the valves we need would run out sooner only to sit in drawers or boxes doing nothing.

Signal valves like ECC82s should last for years anyway.

The power valves that I use are current production so there is no need to hoard them beyond one or matbe two spare sets of each type.

Not all current production types are bad although my favourite ECC82 is the NOS green-print JAN Philips.

Hi Steven,

I'm just saying that I've seen guys storing them away - I've a single shoe box full at the moment, but as someone whom frequent a few tube audio based groups - several members have pointed out just how hard it has become to find something like a pair of long plate Sel Lorenz or Siemens ECC83's - and it's true, you can find singles here and there, but that's about it.

So, I was just a little bit concerned - yet it's reassuring to know that I might in fact already be covered.

And, I'm in agreement with you on the use of new production power tubes, I've learned the hard way that NOS power tubes are in some cases nothing more then used tubes listed as NOS/Unsed.

Thanks for the response - Steven.

Cheers,
scar

 

[Kt77]

It depends on a number of factors including the design of the equipment, how hard the tubes/valves are run to list a couple. I get about 10-15 years out of power tubes (PX25/300B etc) and about the same from the small signal valves in my phono stage and preamps. However one customer ran his phono stage continuously for 4 years without turning it off and it was just beginning to lose some gain. I make that just over 35,000 hours.

On average you can get up to 10,000 hours out of small signal tubes (depending on the brand and whether they are NOS). Push-pull amplifiers running 70-100 watts generally last about 12-24 months before they will need replacing. Again this is dependant on the equipment make, design and the brand of tube used. Vintage amplifiers like Leak, Quad and Radford et al; owners can expect to get significantly longer tube/valve life, e.g. it is not unusual to get 15-20 years out of original GEC KT66s in Quad II's.

Dear GT Audio,

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to this as well - as there have been times that you have stuck me as somewhat - on another plane all together with some of your recommendations if you will.

But taking into account - that what you've written makes a great deal of sense, I shall try not to be as paranoid about said matter and just try to focus my attentiôn on merely getting a few every 2-4 months then.

One just never knows - when one might try to find a pair of say Philips ECC82 Long Plates - D Getter Made in Copenhagen and they've become harder to source ( which they're at present ), so it has been more of an observation more so then anything else - which has caused me to question said depletion of said tube supplies.

But, your response has been comforting to say the least - and has caused me to rethink my need to panic and merely enjoy what I've while I can.

Thanks for sharing/caring enough to offer said insight.

Best regards,
scar

 

[Tony L]

I've stashed a fair few nice NOS / low milage 82s, 83s, GZ34s etc and even some 70s Russian EL84s as the current production are apparently less good. I'd far prefer to be sitting on a nice selection than have to buy in ten years time when they are no doubt far more scarce / expensive. I've got all I need to keep my Stereo 20 happy for the rest of my life, plus a load of really nice 82s should they ever come in useful. Vintage tube prices are only going in one direction as far as I can see.

 

[Kt77]

Not to mention that you may well change your amplifier(s) a few times or even go deaf before you blow out 80 candles. Mind you, you could always open a valve shop to dispose of your hoard, I s'pose !

Live for the present; the future may be cacophonous holocaust rather than euphonious holograph.

Hi Mike,

Great points on all counts - but oh no, not losing my hearing before blowing out the 80 candles " that be the end of life for me ". ( kidding of course ).

But then again - I do get your meanings - live for now and enjoy said qualities in life as they're in the present - as we shall never know what tomorrow brings.

Very to the point, and I can respect that.

Thanks - Mike.
scar

 

[Kt77]

I think you should get out a little more.
Predict what will occur tomorrow, when you can do that think about storing up components.
No offence intended at all.
Enjoy your music while you can.

Hi naimplayer,

As I'm disabled - I can't get around as much as I once did, but do find/make time to get by friends homes to share listening sessions - as well as out to a few record stores every now and then.

But as a Sci-Fi buff, as I see it - if things when wrong on the planet next year!, then why worry about hoarding any of it unless one had a back up generator to begin with - as component would require power would the not?.

No offense taken - just honesty, and that's all anyone can ask.

And I do intend to enjoy the music on a daily bases as I've for years and hopefully a great many more.

Cheers,
scar

 

[Kt77]

scar,
Although I found your post difficult to read, due to the aggressive font you have used, I get your gist.
I would only keep a spare set of your favourite tubes (valves) plus the ones you have tried but not liked so much.
Keeping stashes removes from the market valves which others can use.
Simon

Hi Simon,

Sorry about my selection of fonts - it was an effort to be creative. Oops!.

I only buy tubes that I love - that's the problem. As I began tube rolling back in 2002, I had noticed at that time I had in fact wasted enough money/effort and found out which ones worked in a number of amps I've owned since then - and which were just overhyped and not worthy of pursuit.

I was more or less concerned about the count needed in regards to being comfortable more so then anything - like say 5-9 pairs of my top ECC82's/83's or 10 quads of my favorite power tubes as being a sort of safe place to be be - count wise.

And, as I've been told by guys I trust " Buy them while I can ", and I then relate this same message to others - as one never knows when we'll find ourselves limited to only a hand full of either Chinese or Russian made tubes?, it's bound to happen at some point - so I'd suggest those that are into amps that use them?, get on the ball.

Muck like I collect various cartridges - today's Clearaudio Maestro V2 Ebony ( $1.200 ) could be priced at $2.600 in another 5-8 years, so in essence I'd rather have thing laying around before said prices increase - it's just a way of saying most thing go upwards in price - case in point - LS 3/5A's or Naim Naits ( Martyn see there - I got it right ) for that matter.

Once again, I'd much rather be safe then sorry - hence my posing the question.

And, I'd like to thank you for chiming in as well.

Cheers,
h

 

[Kt77]

I've stashed a fair few nice NOS / low milage 82s, 83s, GZ34s etc and even some 70s Russian EL84s as the current production are apparently less good. I'd far prefer to be sitting on a nice selection than have to buy in ten years time when they are no doubt far more scarce / expensive. I've got all I need to keep my Stereo 20 happy for the rest of my life, plus a load of really nice 82s should they ever come in useful. Vintage tube prices are only going in one direction as far as I can see.

Hey Tony,

Wow!, now that's more or less what I was trying to hint at. Much like you - I too see the prices for the grander older NOS tubes as going upwards and was trying to avoid said overpricing as well. But looking at your stash - I've to say in all honesty " you've some goodies - here ".

And, I had often wondered just how many variant of ECC8_ types you had honestly heard in your years - now I know. And trying to do the math on the boxes I can spot - it appears you like to own about 8-15 pairs of either ECC8_ based tube as a means of having a worthwhile supply.

Yet, I've to say I've found that those Russian EL84's did go back as far as 1960's, and after having a quad of 60's Valvo EL84's go red plate on me in less then 25 seconds is what casused me to panic and go after 7 quads of these last month - as my only two back up quads at the time were said Valvo's along with a quad of Telam EL84s Made in Poland - and from what I can see/hear I'm going after more of the Russian made ones every other month - as some of the sellers in Russian ( slow shipping - by the way ) offer on average 2 matched quads for something like $96 plus shipping, I'm all over 'em.

Tony - Dude, it was shocking to see your response here - as I often spot you mostly discussing music or vintage gear - so thanks for the photo, as well as understanding my OP, seeing your stash has made me feel that I'm not wasting my time in pursing them after all.

Be well - Tony.
scar

 

[Markus S]

Man, I feel left out. All I have is a quartet of NOS GEC KT66 and a carton full of Toshiba EL84s.

 

[Tony L]

And, I had often wondered just how many variant of ECC8_ types you had honestly heard in your years - now I know. And trying to do the math on the boxes I can spot - it appears you like to own about 8-15 pairs of either ECC8_ based tube as a means of having a worthwhile supply.

The bottom 'shelf' is all ECC82 types, the various RCAs being the nicest IMO, especially the black-plate 5814A which are just astounding, there's also some nice '60s grey plates and some clear-tops there. The top left of the top shelf are all ECC83 types, some Mullards, Brimar, Tungsram, Teslsa, Mazda, General Electric (inc some 5751) and vintage EI etc. The star of that show is a vintage 70s or early Tesla E83cc which is just stunning, if a bit noisy. That one makes all other '83s I've heard sound broken by comparison! They are expensive now though, which is a real shame, and the current JJs, whilst looking superficially similar in many respects, just aren't even close. The best current production 83 I've tried, by a long way, is the Sovtek LPS, that a bloody good tube and I'd take over a lot of expensive NOS stuff. The rest of that 'shelf' are the Russian EL84s and a pair of NOS Mullard GZ34s (well, ones actually stuck in the Leak). I've actually had a lot more tubes pass through as I've both borrowed some to try and I've also sold a few. The irony is I'm not even running any tube kit in either system at this particular moment in time!

PS Markus, that's really good going. You need a nice pair of Quad IIs to store the GECs in, obviously, and I bet those Tosh 84s are really nice too, not that it's a tube I've heard of.

 

[Kt77]

Man, I feel left out. All I have is a quartet of NOS GEC KT66 and a carton full of Toshiba EL84s.

Hi Markus S,

Man, you shouldn't - as those items you've are both desirable.
And seeming that I'm pretty much into Japanese tubes as well ( Toshiba - Matsushita - TEN Kobe - Hitachi * worse to my ears and a few others ) might I ask you about your findings on your Toshiba EL84's?, as I'm beginning to pursue Japanese versions as well.

I've managed to pick up 2 quads of the Matsushita Metal Base EL34s and absolutely adore them.

Please share.

scar

 

[Markus S]

No opinion, I'm afraid. They were an opportunistic buy. Haven't used them yet.

 

[Kt77]

I've stashed a fair few nice NOS / low milage 82s, 83s, GZ34s etc and even some 70s Russian EL84s as the current production are apparently less good. I'd far prefer to be sitting on a nice selection than have to buy in ten years time when they are no doubt far more scarce / expensive. I've got all I need to keep my Stereo 20 happy for the rest of my life, plus a load of really nice 82s should they ever come in useful. Vintage tube prices are only going in one direction as far as I can see.

Hi Tony,

As I picked up on the fact that you appear to like both the RCA and Sylvania 5814s could you take a moment to describe the sounds of each?, as I've been chasing the Mazda E82CC/6189/12AU7WA Silver/Chrome plates for over 13 years now along with many of the other European flavors and never remotely stopped to try many of the ones here domestically.

I'm quite taken with RCA 12AX7 Long Carbonized Black Plates with Square Getters - but have found to my ears/in my system that the 5751s seem to lack drive and/or dynamics - many appear to prefer them to pure 12AX7/ECC83s, but I just don't hear it.

But, would love to hear your take - if it's not asking to much?.

Regards,
scar

 

[Kt77]

No opinion, I'm afraid. They were an opportunistic buy. Haven't used them yet.

Fair enough - but lets just say around March or April, would you consider selling me a matched quad?, as I'm curious.

Just in case - all one can do is ask.

 

[Markus S]

No problem with the question, but I'm not selling.