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TT wall shelf > uneven wall.

The Captain

~~~~~~~~~~
Hi chaps,

Job: Typical Target single tier TT wall shelf, to go on an uneven (1830 welsh slate) cottage wall.

It can only go about 10" up above where TT currently is in this photo (it's on a floor 2-tier table & my back's getting mullered, plus my NAP 140 & DIY'cap sit on the floor below it: hardly ideal with the odd mouse spotted).

So adding a wall shelf my TT's higher, & amps can sit on the lower shelf of the 2-tier table, off the floor. But the wall.. is badly inny-outy.

All advice welcomed, thanks for reading- Capt

9-C3-C5-A01-BEFE-489-B-B2-C2-ACB6-E5-CDB1-AC.jpg
 
If the wall is uneven you'll have to use shims/spacers/washers between the shelf and the wall.
 
Hi @Yank

I was thinking as it's really fairly pronounced inny-outy.. to do a good job (It's my sitting-room after all) I'd need a better build solution than just shims really.

Let's see what others think. Thanks, Capt
 
First thing to do is work out pretty much exactly.where the shelf is going to go.
Then offer up some kind of straight-edge and position it where you want to end-up. (Blu-tak. anything to hold it in place.
Then measure the gaps that will need packing.
Then work out what to use.
 
Appropriately cut short lengths of coper pipe might well do it. With an appropriately sized hole saw you could let one end into the wall slightly so it sits flush.
 
First thing to do is work out pretty much exactly.where the shelf is going to go.
Then offer up some kind of straight-edge and position it where you want to end-up. (Blu-tak. anything to hold it in place.
Then measure the gaps that will need packing.
Then work out what to use.
Thanks, saved half what I was going to scribble.

  • If available , make up a template with spare thin ply/mdf, anything stiff enough to hold its shape, flat and barely bigger than the overall fixing outline required.
  • Use sharp pencil to prick -through centres of all fixings to template
  • Drill these to 8mm to receive standard wooden pencil. jab two stubs of pencil in these holes, use these to rest your level across.
  • Align & level this template, inc in plumb: 2-3-4 big blobs of blutack as above;
  • Use pencil in 8mm holes to identify fixing centre/ mark the wall surface
  • Approximate distance from back of template at each corner to wall surface; take note of where & how much in whatever measurement standard you like (nb this is why you want the template to only-just accomdate the maximal corner hole set-out)

...Ideas for fixings and packing to follow once I've digested whatever le capitan, is sending me -

@The Captain - do you know what that finish is? Variable thickness of likely soft 'plaster', is what I'm thinking; it's far too smooth(!) to be a thin limewash or sim on raw slate.
 
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First thing to do is work out pretty much exactly.where the shelf is going to go.
Then offer up some kind of straight-edge and position it where you want to end-up. (Blu-tak. anything to hold it in place.
Then measure the gaps that will need packing.
Then work out what to use.

Hi Vinny thanks for your thoughts.

Yup I'll mock up a rectangle of ply same size as backside of the TT shelf.. & measure gaps.

Good first step/ understood. Will do tmrw & report back. Capt
 
Thanks, saved half what I was going to scribble.

  • If available , make up a template with spare thin ply/mdf, anything stiff enough to hold its shape, flat and barely bigger than the overall fixing outline required.
  • Use sharp pencil to prick -through centres of all fixings to template
  • Drill these to 8mm to receive standard wooden pencil. jab two stubs of pencil in these holes, use these to rest your level across.
  • Align & level this template, inc in plumb: 2-3-4 big blobs of blutack as above;
  • Use pencil in 8mm holes to identify fixing centre/ mark the wall surface
  • Approximate distance from back of template at each corner to wall surface; take note of where & how much in whatever measurement standard you like (nb this is why you want the template to only-just accomdate the maximal corner hole set-out)

...Ideas for fixings and packing to follow once I've digested whatever Rory is sending me -

@The Captain - do you know what that finish is? Variable thickness of likely soft 'plaster', is what I'm thinking; it's far too smooth(!) to be a thin limewash or sim on raw slate.
Cheers Martin, invaluable info.

[Article is unrelated to this topic, will pm sometime with it].

Finish: hmm tricky to know, I think it's some kind of thick masonry paint onto slate stone & earth 'mortar': non-breathable paint, ideally the whole cottage inner shell needs stripping of it & a breathable limewash done.. but logistics of doing so are WAY too huge to contemplate.

The same paint on exterior too: so at lowest 3 ft I see evidence of/ can sense some damp is trapped in the 2ft thick walls. Again logistics of stripping off & redoing, are emormous, so I kinda put up with a dose of lower corner damp in this one large shell main room.

Thanks, Capt
 
The other thing to remember is that basically two fixings at the top are going to take the vast majority of the load.
It would be fiddly to the point of being almost miraculous if you could tighten all 3 in the top rail to the same extent.
My Target shelf here has only two HUGE screws (probably something like 4 inch 12's or 14's - it was a while ago - the heads JUST about tapped through the front-facing holes), into wall plugs in the cinder block wall, which is at least reasonably flat. However, I have used SS washers to act as spacers between wall and shelf to allow for the very small imperfections and for the screws to be very tight without warping the frame of the shelf.

The lower fixing points achieve nowt in terms of load support - that part of the shelf is in compression, not tension.
 
^exactly that.

I'm thinking some kind of wall anchor screw, with a long shank to both get into the stone/ through the plaster; and the use of something slightly-compressible, for the spacers - not washers/pipe segments.

Back, in a bit / probably tomorrow.
 
Ply template to get the spacing drill or mark the holes through the template then chemical anchors in the wall with studing and nuts or washers to space it.

Pete
 
chemical anchors in the wall with studing and nuts or washers to space it.

A long way from as easy as it sounds - the heads of screws, or the nuts are intended to sit inside the box section, out of sight. Un-modified, you could not get a spanner or socket on the nuts once inside the section. Some butchery would fix that, but it would be butchery and/or one almighty faff.
 
The nuts could go outside the box section, stainless steel dome headed nuts would look nice.

Pete

Hi Pete, I was wondering about resin & threaded rod (is that studding? think so), but Vinny does make a good point I hadn't thought of, IE the bigger hole/ smaller hole means a thin 5mm threaded rod, unless I enlarge it, which I'm not too keen on tbh. It does seem to be designed for long screws only really, it seems to me.

Your idea defo the strongest though of course. Thanks, Capt
 
Finish: hmm tricky to know, I think it's some kind of thick masonry paint onto slate stone & earth 'mortar': non-breathable paint, ideally the whole cottage inner shell needs stripping of it & a breathable limewash done.. but logistics of doing so are WAY too huge to contemplate.

The same paint on exterior too: so at lowest 3 ft I see evidence of/ can sense some damp is trapped in the 2ft thick walls. Again logistics of stripping off & redoing, are emormous, so I kinda put up with a dose of lower corner damp in this one large shell main room.

Thanks, Capt
Provided you own the property (as opposed to rented) this is the first thing you should sort out. It's a bit of a messy and dirty job but well worthwhile doing both for your health and the 'health' of the building.
You don't necessarily have to use limewash, there are great products, primer and paints from a company called 'Graphenestone'. I've used them recently on our (1680 )basalt stone cottage .
If you think the damp is coming up from the ground then strip off any skirting and remove the bottom 2" of plaster, this should make a break and stop damp from travelling upwards.Then you can put your skirting back on.
When it comes to mounting anything on old walls it's useful to know what they're actually constructed of some stone is very , very difficult to drill and will blunt any bit apart from a diamond tipped (water cooled) bit, even then basalt will strip these sometimes. Then sometimes you could find quite the opposite where the material fractures or is too soft to give any real support, slate and lime mortar/plaster can be quite soft materials. I work with stone, mainly building steps nowadays.
If you really want to use a wall shelf to mount your record player, I would recommend stripping back a rectangle slightly larger than the wall shelf on the existing surface, once you have it stripped back until you find a hard surface , then build it out until you have a flat and plumb surface. Hempcrete make strong easy to work with products for using in stone Buildings. You could then fix your wall shelf to the flat surface of wall or fix a piece of material to the wall, shuttering Ply or birch Ply would be preferable to MDF, then fix your wall shelf to this. Due to the very irregular nature of natural stone building , drilling can be a bit hit or miss, one fixing could be into the middle of a stone and the next one into a mortar joint or worse just at the edge of a stone, glancing upwards downward or sideways making it a right pain to get a straight fixing.
I know this may sound like a bit if work but it would be worth it if you wish to live there and maintain your property. I'd be inclined to sort the walls and use a piece of furniture for the record player, whether you use a sideboard, table or dedicated hifi table I guess is down to personal preference.
 
Maybe a bit medieval, but what I would do is make two deep (15 - 18cm) holes in the wall, through the outer finish and well into the actual stone. Then take two pieces of robust L-section (or I-section) steel, maybe 40cm long, and cement them into the stone wall for the turntable support to rest on. Then you can re-finish the wall or leave it as it is. Make sure the cement sets with the two steel beams has perfectly horizontal as possible, if necessary thin shims under the TT to make it perfectly level.
 


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