Train nationalisation or not ?
- Thread starter hifinutt
- Start date
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
@Mike Hughes - have you tried complaining via the Rail Ombudsman about your issues with accessibility? What did they say?
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
That’s an interesting question. So, yes, on three occasions. They are industry funded and simply refuse to investigate. I consider accessibiloty to be customer service and thus covered. They consider it public policy and therefore not.
Seeker_UK
Feelin' nearly faded as my jeans
AIUI, a condition for TOCs top operate is that they have an Accessible Travel Policy. If they're not enforcing their policy and the Rail Ombudsman is not playing ball, could the ORR be engaged?
Nic Robinson
Moderator
Stations (including my local, Haywards Heath)
- Lifts to all platforms (at both ends of the station).
- All lifts have audio to say when doors are opening and the level arrived at etc.
- Staff available to assist 24/7 (when my meniscus went, there was a member of staff there who put me in a wheelchair within 2 minutes off a busy commuter train and wheeled me down to the car park to meet my wife in her car)
- Ramps where there were once only stairs
- Defib units
- Better signs with service status etc.
- Improved PA with regular announcements
- Portable ramps on all platforms with staff to use them for boarding and alighting wheelchair users
- Wider ticket barriers on all stations to allow wheelchair access
- Slam-doors (one passenger wide) now gone excepting heritage stock/railways
- Colour differentiated external doors on all trains to help the visually impaired
- Wide, automatic doors now the norm
- Parking space for wheelchairs in carriages
- Accessible toilets with large sliding doors (and the door controls are at a lower height) on all units so 2x on an 8 car commuter train. Toilets are no longer accessible via the vestibule but are in the carriages (alas Voyagers smell of piss, but hey-ho).
- Through access without any doors between carriages becoming more prevalent on commuter trains (see the Siemens 700 series)
- Specific seats for those with mobility issues which have additional legroom and are close to doors. (I have NEVER seen a refusal when asked to vacate.)
- Excellent mix of automated and driver announcements
- Large, clear displays of approaching station etc.
I'm sure it's not perfect, and smaller stations won't be so well equipped, but to say nothing has changed is simply not the case.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Struggling to see where I said nothing has changed. That’s nonsense. You said lots had changed since the 80s. I pointed out that change in itself is not the same as “better”. I stand by that. I know Haywards Heath pretty well having had cause to use Three Bridges etc. quite a lot over the years.
Here’s just a couple of issues for you.
- the lifts at Haywards Heath have been out of use repeatedly.
- the audio has failed repeatedly and local users complain the volume, as with a number nationwide to be fair, is simply too low.
- at least one of the ramps is non-compliant i.e. the gradient makes it physically dangerous for wheelchair users.
- define “better”. Displays give service status not “signs“ Signage is a related issue but not the same. On platform signage is poor and the displays so far apart that they’re effectively only available to about 1/4 of the people on a platform.
- portable ramps which aren’t in use as the platforms have level access.
- emergency radios location inaccessible at peak times.
- accessible ticket machines which have screens so reflective they’re unusable whenever the sun is out.
- accessible toilet restricted only to ticket office hours.
- platform seating - all the same type and height and thus a basic accessibility fail.
- colour differentiated doors which do nothing for the visually impaired because the colours used provide insufficient contrast and because colourblindness is a visual impairment.
- accessible seating which is occupied 90% of the time by people without an access need. The fact you have to ask is an irrelevance. Asking is something we do every day of our lives and it is demoralising and exhausting. The fact someone moves is nothing to the point.
Nic Robinson
Moderator
For fear of saying the wrong thing, I'm out of this.
richardg
Admonishtrator
I work in Germany. I live in France. I occasionally end up on a train in either country. It's better in France. Both are better than UK. By a long way.
I have this year been paid 50% compensation by Deutsche Bahn for getting me home 2 and a half hours late.
Jubal
pfm Member
Cheese
Bitter lover
From what I hear about how 'terrible' German trains have become in recent years, and from the state of the carriages of a French non-TGV train (dating back to the 70s at best, even though it is on the very touristy line Paris-Deauville), this says something about British Rail. Although I found the line Brighton-London quite passable.
Until the next torrential rain of £100 notes, nationalising a privately-owned rail company will not be possible.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
They maintained the line.What did the ORR say when you escalated?
I’m very interested in your line of questioning though as i’ve seen this before many times. Ultimately the implication is that there’s no right to be critical because you haven’t pursued all the lines available to you and if you did then you can’t have done so properly because if you’d done so then the outcome would have definitely been different if you were correct and thus your critique cannot be correct. It’s a line which assumes all these institutions work brilliantly, which they patently do not. It’s a line that assumes being disabled gives you loads of time to endlessly complain so you’ve no excuse if the exhaustion brought on by your health gets in the way. The phrase I’m grasping for here is something akin to victim blaming.
If you have a different intent to that then I’m sorry for misinterpreting but it would help if you explain where you’re going with this because that’s what it looks like at present.
A wise move. People should be concerned about saying the wrong thing, especially when they elected to misrepresent what was said in the first place.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Only 50%?
Most train companies here give you a 100% refund if you are over two hours late.
Indeed if either part of your return journey with Cross Country is delayed by over two hours you are given back the whole cost of your return ticket, so the whole journey cost you nothing.
A service that has softened the blow of recent journeys to and from Edinburgh for me.
richardg
Admonishtrator
We got caught out Hull to Manchester Airport. First train was Hull Trains perhaps and the connection was another company, both trains were late by less than the 2 hours but overall we were more than 2 hours late. Furthermore, we bought the ticket from Trainline. We never got the money. And we missed our £200 per person flights, and there was no available compo for that. If I sell a faulty part that also damages the vehicle, I am liabel to compensate for the part and the damage it caused. Why are the trains not? Are we supposed to plan our journey to factor in say 4 hours of delays?
Consequently, I am pro renationalisation, including getting rid of the ticket brokers. There should be one direction of blame when things go wrong. But in my case they all just pointed the finger at each other and I gave up chasing the compensation quite quickly. It was an easy decision, fvck trains in England, just get in the car. This happened two years ago, not missed a flight since.
Consequently, I am pro renationalisation, including getting rid of the ticket brokers. There should be one direction of blame when things go wrong. But in my case they all just pointed the finger at each other and I gave up chasing the compensation quite quickly. It was an easy decision, fvck trains in England, just get in the car. This happened two years ago, not missed a flight since.
Nic Robinson
Moderator
I guess you win.
Minio
Kind of Sort of Not really...
What was a nationalised British Rail compared with what we have now is like looking back to the third world.
I have memories of dried up sandwiches and rural stations with no electricity, lit by oil lamps.
Recent experience has quite shocked me at the advances and efficiency.
There is a big but to that though.
It depends what part of the country we are talking about.
I have memories of dried up sandwiches and rural stations with no electricity, lit by oil lamps.
Recent experience has quite shocked me at the advances and efficiency.
There is a big but to that though.
It depends what part of the country we are talking about.
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
You should have been entitled to compensation.
It doesn’t start at 2 hour delays.
Did you apply for it?
gintonic
50 shades of grey pussy cats
Compensation and refunds for train tickets | National Rail
If your train journey is cancelled or delayed you may be entitled to a full refund from the retailer of your ticket, or compensation from the train company that caused the delay.
You need to claim from the railway company you were travelling with - With Avanti West coast (when our train from Birmingham to London we claimed on the app for the 1 hour plus delay and go our 50% back in a few days. I really don't understand why anyone would use a third partly to buy tickets.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Delay Repay is hilariously bad. Most people give up and the amôunt you get refunded bears no relationship to the facts of your case. There are obviously limits to this but, generally speaking, as someone with sight loss I adhere to the principle that you book or take the bus, tram or train journey before the one you need to make. My trains to Wrexham are bssed on the need to be there for 2pm for a 3pm kick off. There is a 36 minute wait in Chester, which is fine, albeit that it‘s my toilet stop and I need an accessible toilet. Both Chester and Wrexham were not in use so you have to exit the barrier at Chester to use the tiny gents on the concourse and then come back in. The train to Chester a few weeks back ran over 20 minutes late. Access to live info suggested we were coming in on 4 but switched to 7 as I guessed it might. I booked passenger support and advised I’d need someone to get me through and back to get my next train on 2. Sure enough they don’t arrive and I don’t make my connection after it’s moved from 2 to 4B with no announcemeht and 5 minutes to spare. I get a bus outsude the station but my English concessionary pass is of no use as we cross the border so I’m shelling out a further £4. Stress has a direct impact on one eye condition so I also jolt my spine stumbling off the kerb; have to shell out for painkillers at Wrexham bus station so that‘s a further £3 out of pocket.
Delay Repay decides that, despite my National Rail app screen shot showing the time the train arrived, it definitely arrived earlier and thus I should be grateful for my £1.25 refund.
Mike Hughes
pfm Member
Well for accessibility reasons for starters. National Rail and most of the individual company apps are dreadful in comparison to thetrainline for example.Compensation and refunds for train tickets | National Rail
If your train journey is cancelled or delayed you may be entitled to a full refund from the retailer of your ticket, or compensation from the train company that caused the delay.www.nationalrail.co.uk
You need to claim from the railway company you were travelling with - With Avanti West coast (when our train from Birmingham to London we claimed on the app for the 1 hour plus delay and go our 50% back in a few days. I really don't understand why anyone would use a third partly to buy tickets.
Also many tickets are only released to third parties so it’s the obvious way to get on a train you’re otherwise told is sold out. I do it all the time.
I’d reverse it and say I really don’t undersyand why you wouldn’t use a third party.
richardg
Admonishtrator
I started off with an email to trainline and they pointed fingers, we then contacted Hull, they pointed fingers. For 40 quid, it was already too much hassle. My thoughts are we should be able to present our ticket at the destination and get an immediate refund with whoever is selling trickets at the station counter. That will never happen, particularly when it is so fragmented with private companies.
It doesn't matter what the entitlement is and whether I was misinformed or lied to, I'm not getting involved with UK trains any more. I just use National Express once or twice a year when I have no car.