[WTD] Townshend Elite Rock 2 Turntable
- Thread starter karma67
- Start date
kitemap
Immoderate
I have a Towhshend Rock. Can't remember whether or not it's a Rock 2.
It's been sitting stagnant on a turntable shelf in my living room for about 15 years or possibly more. I don't have a box and it's pretty heavy.
Where abouts are you based as I'd want it to be inspected if I were going to sell it. It has a mark on the plinth underneath the trough.
I may have some pictures on my PC but if not, and you're interested, I'll sort some out.
Edit: It's on the right of this picture. Don't know if that determines whether a 1 or 2. It has a green on/off switch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K18zZrzHxpmPawWw8
Found another picture here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CMDGKTr87dYuqAyh6
It's been sitting stagnant on a turntable shelf in my living room for about 15 years or possibly more. I don't have a box and it's pretty heavy.
Where abouts are you based as I'd want it to be inspected if I were going to sell it. It has a mark on the plinth underneath the trough.
I may have some pictures on my PC but if not, and you're interested, I'll sort some out.
Edit: It's on the right of this picture. Don't know if that determines whether a 1 or 2. It has a green on/off switch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/K18zZrzHxpmPawWw8
Found another picture here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CMDGKTr87dYuqAyh6
Mark Packer
All Rev'd up!
That's a Rock II.
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
Thats defo a Rock 2
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
It's defo a Rock two, but that's a non-descript later trough, likely from an Avalon, as it looks Rock 3 'era' but has no pin...
Cheers.
Matt (P.S. I'm the RockDoc that Mark refers to up above!). I have about 19 Rock 2's and 3 Rock 3's here currently... as well as at least one of all the others, including a Rock Reference and a Rock V....
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
No it won't, it'll need a tweak to the motor psu (ie a component adding) and a new 50Hz pulley...
All the best
Matt
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
I have loads, but I suspect they'll be above your budget.... see my website. www.therockdoconline.com
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
Also a rock reference but at ludicrous money (it actually isn't any better than the basic one with a merlin or alternative PSU.
Sorry, but I have to say I don't think you've heard one in full fettle in a suitable system if you think that. Also, in comparison to a lot of very high end and expensive decks today, a properly sorted one will hold its own. You can get to about 75% of the Reference quality with some judicious work on Rock 2's, but to get closer takes time, effort and a lot lot more money. I have 19 Rock 2's here and have owned (and still do) several Rock References and Rock 3's, 5's and 7's. I've been working on them and modifying them for 30 plus years and my goal has been to get the Rock 2 to sound as good as a Rock Reference or Rock V. I'm not far off but still not there yet...maybe closer to the Rock V. The Reference was and is a Tour de Force when correctly fettled and set up but I'd be the first to agree that they were not exactly consistent in their build quality. I have one in permanent use in my high end system at my house that several industry experts have heard and if you heard it directly against one of my full custom modified Rock 2's, then against a standard Rock 2, then you'd agree. I welcome anyone to come and do so. I also have a 'modern' 16k turntable in my system which it easily matches at least. Mark Packer, who's a lovely guy and knowledgeable too, and who's in this group of text, has heard my system (and actually now owns one of my modified Rock 2's). If you've been to a Hifi show in the last few years you will have seen/heard some of my creations such as at the UK Audio Show last year (where 7 of my collection, including the Cranfield prototype I rebuilt for Townshend, were on display for the Max T tribute), along with said Reference and one of my custom Rock 2's in Max's personal system with one - off Glastonbury Tors and his one off Hybrid amps, and where I spoke about my affinity and work with Rocks in the tribute talk on Max's work. Alternatively, the North West Audio show at Cranage last year where 3 were in use, in the Alchris Audio, Kerr Acoustics and Brook Audio/Longdog Audio rooms and one on display in the Townshend static display stand. A few will also be in use at this year's UK Audio Show. Max asked me just before he passed to carry on doing the work I do, and so I do, including being the sole service agent for Rocks for Townshend themselves. I would and always do welcome any feedback about the work I do, so please have a listen to one at the shows and pass me your thoughts... I'm always happy to have people over to my house to have a listen.
Cheers
Matt.
Sorry, but I have to say I don't think you've heard one in full fettle in a suitable system if you think that. Also, in comparison to a lot of very high end and expensive decks today, a properly sorted one will hold its own. You can get to about 75% of the Reference quality with some judicious work on Rock 2's, but to get closer takes time, effort and a lot lot more money. I have 19 Rock 2's here and have owned (and still do) several Rock References and Rock 3's, 5's and 7's. I've been working on them and modifying them for 30 plus years and my goal has been to get the Rock 2 to sound as good as a Rock Reference or Rock V. I'm not far off but still not there yet...maybe closer to the Rock V. The Reference was and is a Tour de Force when correctly fettled and set up but I'd be the first to agree that they were not exactly consistent in their build quality. I have one in permanent use in my high end system at my house that several industry experts have heard and if you heard it directly against one of my full custom modified Rock 2's, then against a standard Rock 2, then you'd agree. I welcome anyone to come and do so. I also have a 'modern' 16k turntable in my system which it easily matches at least. Mark Packer, who's a lovely guy and knowledgeable too, and who's in this group of text, has heard my system (and actually now owns one of my modified Rock 2's). If you've been to a Hifi show in the last few years you will have seen/heard some of my creations such as at the UK Audio Show last year (where 7 of my collection, including the Cranfield prototype I rebuilt for Townshend, were on display for the Max T tribute), along with said Reference and one of my custom Rock 2's in Max's personal system with one - off Glastonbury Tors and his one off Hybrid amps, and where I spoke about my affinity and work with Rocks in the tribute talk on Max's work. Alternatively, the North West Audio show at Cranage last year where 3 were in use, in the Alchris Audio, Kerr Acoustics and Brook Audio/Longdog Audio rooms and one on display in the Townshend static display stand. A few will also be in use at this year's UK Audio Show. Max asked me just before he passed to carry on doing the work I do, and so I do, including being the sole service agent for Rocks for Townshend themselves. I would and always do welcome any feedback about the work I do, so please have a listen to one at the shows and pass me your thoughts... I'm always happy to have people over to my house to have a listen.
Cheers
Matt.
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
It all depends on the spec... I only sell full custom modified, one off versions. I don't sell them as standard units.... Hence my comment about the budget. Keep looking and you'll find one on here or ebay at some point, If you just want a cheap standard one. They come up quite often, but are getting a little harder to find as people realise how good they can actually sound in a decent system, with the right ancillaries around them.
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
Both those arms work superbly well on a Rock. I've just put a NOS Zeta from my collection, (similiar of course to the Mechanic also made by GB Tools) on one of my custom Rock 3's, with a Benz Micro Wood SL. It sounds weighty, but fast, detailed and very nice. The Mechanic, I suggest would be similar, although a Rock 3 has a very slightly different character to a Rock 2.
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
The trough I believe is a Townshend Avalon one. It has no pin and is less tall than the original Rock one, which means arm height could be wrong. I can supply troughs, but theyre not cheap. The clamp is also not original, same with the armboard, not that that matters. I can supply acrylic armboards for virtually any arm. And clamps. The clamp is likely remade, because the original acrylic clamps cracked like they were going out of fashion, so it looks like they've remade the clamp, but re-used (or made a similar) screw part. Again, as long as it contacts correctly and works, this may be no biggie for some. I have NOS original clamps, Avalon and Rock 7 style clamps here, (which when modified to fit a Rock 2 as I do, actually work better, but again, there's a cost to that). That platter just looks original but with the top of it sanded down and polished. Or it could have lost the top pvc mat and just had it replaced with a generic platter mat.
All said and done, it's not really a bad price, that one.. and about the price I have to pay nowadays for 'donors' for my custom Rocks.
All the best
Matt
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
I'm always interested, for use as donors for my custom Rocks, so marks, peeling powder coated and even rust is fine for me as long as the bearings ok. I can make a pretty much instant assessment of that, just by looking at it, or at least requesting a video .
Cheers
Matt
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
The original Cranfield is good, but it's plagued with problems, hence it was quickly replaced by the Rock 2. There is a story behind all that, but it's a long one - too long for here! If you can find an original one, that's been looked after, with all the original parts on it, it would be a good buy, but most I've seen in the last ten years are far from that. The motors are a problem, and are NLA, as it that bearing...
Matt
colasblue
pfm Member
I'll bow to your superior experience - I've only heard one twice but it didn't make me want to own it on either occasion and there wasn't a stack of other turntables available to race it against. Most people will be lucky to hear one at all given how few of them there are out there!
Out of interest what proportion of the total world Rock population do you estimate your collection represents? I've not seen a serial number above 500 on a Rock 2 so it could be a few percent.
mmcnult1
Rock luva!!!
You are right, very few have heard a Reference at all, let alone back to back against anything else. Apart from Max, myself and a few other few persons I know, some of whom are no longer with us, sadly. There's probably very few other people that have heard two against each other, or had the chance to compare with other decks. I had both a Voyd 0.5 Reference and an Avid Acutus at the time I had my first Reference and compared that to an SME 30 at the time, which was fabulously built but didn't do much for me, musically, although I remain a fan of SME (of old, at least). The Reference stayed and the rest went, for varying reasons, mostly of space, but I actually preferred the Reference, despite liking the 'differences' between them. Back to present day, I have a top of the range Helius Viridia/Omega Silver Ruby/Transfiguration which sits in my system next to the Reference, Lyra Etna SL, along with one of my top spec custom Rock 2's, with modified ceramic bearing'd, Kondo wired, Excalibur and Koetsu Urushi Sky Blue. The reference is fettled but unmodified, otherwise. I'm happy to demonstrate any to anyone. Numbers wise, there were around 3000 Rock 2's made according to Max. The latest one i've seen is a NOS boxed one with Excaliber and Merlin that I have here which has never been used and is still in its protective bag (which I HAD to open out of sheer curiosity!) - its a late serial number and has some differing features to others I've seen. Thicker platter mat on the platter, different bearing design and motor board style and different feet. The subplatter is very thin where the belt runs, I guess, to account for 1) the fact the belt doesn't have to be moved, because it has a Merlin, and 2) to account for the extra thickness in the platter height due to the increased platter mat thickness. In reality though, there were many changes throughout Rock production (almost by batch!), as Max experimented a lot with bearings/subplatters, feet and motor boards, which may have also coincided with supply, cost and availability. In reality, there was very little that didn't change, even the writing on the trough did. I think maybe the motor and the switch were maybe the only things! Later decks were much nicer in their finish than earlier ones, especially compared to the earlier ones with the smaller diameter shaft and non-adjustable sub-platter height. Really early ones never even had a screw in clamp. In terms of number spread, many stayed in the UK but there were a lot sent to Europe and they were VERY popular in Germany and Holland, and much less so, but some went to parts of Scandinavia. A portion went to the US (which is one of the reasons why the later Rock 3 was manufactured and built there and is pretty rare here) and an amount went to Japan and the far east, so I'm told. The Rock 2 is by far the least rare of all the Rocks. Amounts are vague for the Rock Reference (varying between 49 and over to 150, but I think its more likely somewhere closer to the lesser amount depending on who you ask). I've only ever seen 7 different ones....I know they are revered by Japanese collectors and several have gone to those guys over there from here for over 10k... Rock V (between 38 and 55, so they're very rare - mine came from Switzerland and I know Mik at Unique Audio has one, but thats all I know of). Rock 7, funnily enough, I never actually got round to discussing with Max, with respect to numbers made, although I do know the majority were sent to the US, plus here and Europe. Of course, the rarest of all are the various prototypes, the Rock anniversary and the Rock Reference Master. I have the Cranfield Prototype here, currently, along with Prof. Jack Dinsdales old Rock 3 (and 2 other Rock 3's). The Anniversary I've seen bits of at the factory, and sadly, The Rock Reference Master which I've been looking for, for years, hoping it would come up one day, has never re-surfaced. Max sold it and its never been seen since... not even he knew where it went.
So all in all, Rocks are actually pretty rare. I've had around 80 or 90 (ish) Rock 2's through my hands in varying forms plus doing work on others for people. Very few References come my way, and even fewer V's and 7's. Literally no 7's at all in fact, for work other than set-up/ tuning. I guess they're just not at that point yet where they need work, or have all been squirrelled away and are not in use, due either to people moving over to digital, or just not working and been put away? Either way I think their numbers are similarly limited. It was obsoleted by Max just before the vinyl resurgence...
All the best
Matt
I'd be interested to know about all of these problems with the original Elite Cranfield Rock. The Rock 2 was built by Max T after he bought the rights to the design and he then significantly reduced the cost of production. This was achieved in the main by the use of plaster of paris instead of the granitan compound as developed by Prof Jack Dinsdale at Cranfield. Dinsdale was unable to use his own bearing design because Cranfield had already sold the rights to Garrard several years before (which they never got around to using) so he then designed the massive bearing that we find on the Cranfield. The motor does get very hot, but mine has never failed so presumably it was designed that way. The build quality of the Cranfield Rock is extraordinary. It is worth remembering that in 1980 it sold for three times the price of a Linn LP12, which is why so few were actually sold. You appear not to like the Cranfield Rock. Apart from it's scarcity, why do you not like it?