Topping D90iii - worth a try?
- Thread starter steveinspain
- Start date
darrenyeats
pfm Member
I believe you. Also I've heard sound field improving when moving to new kit with - and I don't think things are so simple but others might - lower distortion numbers.
camverton
pfm Member
Yes, software upscaling is an alternative option. I tried it, found the sound impressive but the faff not, so chose the hardware option. Good to have a choice.
The sound quality doesn’t degrade over time! Obviously further advances may be made which doesn’t really bother me as my current setup sorted out the sound quality issues I was having with the likes of Topping, Benchmark etc etc. Listen to Mahan Esfahani playing his harpsichord “vigorously“ with and without an m scaler; it might make you think not only about accuracy but also about how it makes complex music full of transients more intelligible.
Rob Watts has his detractors; so what, many are not the sort of people I would go to for either objective or subjective advice or opinion. They might be OK opining on cups of tea though
.Problems with anything manufactured can be an issue. The power supply on my 2Qute stopped working but Chord, based in Kent, had a new one to me in less than 24 hours. Tell us about the reliability problems with Topping and also what was the make that put in power supplies that smoked because they weren’t rated for UK use? I guess it’s cheap enough so, apart from the landfill problem, it might not be so much of a financial problem.
Now then, if Topping is state of the art why do they need to keep releasing new models.
colasblue
pfm Member
Same reasons Chord and DCS does - they can or have do better due to a technological innovation or some technology becomes unavailable.
The original D90 had an AKM chip that became unavailable due to a factory fire.
The D90SE and LE switched to the top ESS9038pro chip with an improved performance. The only difference between the two models is the SE supports MQA but the LE doesn't
The new D90III Sabre uses a new chip the ESS9039pro in dual configuration.
They offer other ranges with differing sets of features which go through similar progressions some of which are based on AKM chipsets.
It's just that Topping seem to adopt the changes as soon as practical.
Oh and unlike Chord you rarely hear of any reliability issues with Topping, but when there are problems it seems they do have at least some customer support but I agree that for the price you can't really have huge expectations. Chord do give a 5 year warranty and in fairness its the only one I've ever claimed on. Seems your experience is similar - Nuff said!
The DVD32R I had with the Chord also broke down and cost as much to get fixed as it was worth. I'll never buy any IAG product again either!
OTOH the huge stack of Naim equipment I own has rarely given any trouble. In 40 years one blown NADI, one open circuit inductor on a fan control board and one failed relay circuit on a very old NAXO. All of the kit was well over a decade old (and with the NADI 3 decades old) before giving any issues.
The original D90 had an AKM chip that became unavailable due to a factory fire.
The D90SE and LE switched to the top ESS9038pro chip with an improved performance. The only difference between the two models is the SE supports MQA but the LE doesn't
The new D90III Sabre uses a new chip the ESS9039pro in dual configuration.
They offer other ranges with differing sets of features which go through similar progressions some of which are based on AKM chipsets.
It's just that Topping seem to adopt the changes as soon as practical.
Oh and unlike Chord you rarely hear of any reliability issues with Topping, but when there are problems it seems they do have at least some customer support but I agree that for the price you can't really have huge expectations. Chord do give a 5 year warranty and in fairness its the only one I've ever claimed on. Seems your experience is similar - Nuff said!
The DVD32R I had with the Chord also broke down and cost as much to get fixed as it was worth. I'll never buy any IAG product again either!
OTOH the huge stack of Naim equipment I own has rarely given any trouble. In 40 years one blown NADI, one open circuit inductor on a fan control board and one failed relay circuit on a very old NAXO. All of the kit was well over a decade old (and with the NADI 3 decades old) before giving any issues.
camverton
pfm Member
I suppose it’s relative. I found the Chord DACs to be inherently neutral rather like having a TV rely on quality and resolution rather than turning up the sharpness to get an illusion of clarity. They are at their best, imo, with the finest quality speakers and amps. On the other hand other makes might soften, perhaps smear which by comparison might make the Chord appear to be hyped up whereas it is in fact “correct”.
Wine Man
pfm Member
Just to redress the balance.. I still have a DAC64 mk2 from 2005/6 which has never missed a beat and still sounds lovely. It has also seen off a couple of cheaper modern DACs in the art of playing music. Also a thumbs up for Chord's service .. I have a Blu CD transport of similar vintage. Laser deterioration after many years of service, returned to the factory last year and back with me within a week. At least they can still service their legacy stuff unlike certain UK manufacturers.
Del monaco
Del Monaco
In the end it’s you who decides whether it is satisfying or not.
I have a Topping DX7 Pro which sounds good but the remote stopped working. So not all that reliable. This makes accessing the menus awkward and I could not find any way to get a new remote. I am sure that brands like Chord would be able to help.
oldius
Manchester City, dogs, family and food.
Looking forward to hearing the feedback on this. I think there's still a lot of bias against Chinese kit, but I remember refusing to listen to Japanese gear in the 80s, much of what I now own, because my dad, and others, including the magazines of the period, informed me that it was 'Jap crap'.
This is just subjective dressed as objective. You either like what a product does or you don’t. I’d be a bit reluctant to ‘risk’ some of the far east DACs directly into my speakers but not anti measurement or innovation.
Chord gear doesn’t really appeal to me, not sure why.
Chord gear doesn’t really appeal to me, not sure why.
Eoin
pfm Member
Hi Tony,
Plenty available on eBay. About £30
If you can’t find one I’ll send a link.
There seems to be a couple of models, the first one I found was ‘RC22’ check what’s marked on yours and I’m sure you’ll replace it fine.
camverton
pfm Member
I’m not surprised at all. Fwiw I’ve found that the DACs I have here all sound “similar“ to the extent that many visitors here would say they sound the same. It is really a case of whether the subtle differences are significant to any particular individual, particularly one who sits down and gets fully engrossed in the music - and how many normal folk do that?
The other point, I find, is that some differences become apparent, not when closely listening to the sound but when listening to music and forgetting about the sound per se. In practice some DACs I have distract me from enjoying the music, some don’t. I choose the ones that consistently don’t - for whatever reason, but the curious thing is that when trying to analyse and compare the sound the differences between them are subtle at best. Perhaps it’s best to assess audio equipment in the manner for which it is intended to be used, not as a designer creates it?
To appreciate a piece of woodland we need to experience it as a whole not dissect and analyse every leaf…
camverton
pfm Member
Is he the chap that the ASR crowd like to attack, at least when they are not busy abusing Rob Watts?
Columbo
pfm Member
Largely this. The differences are subtle and they tend to get overblown in discussions and reviews.
And also agree with the point that A/B testing is limited - sometimes it takes me a month or two to of straight listening to some gear to figure out I do / don't like it, and then I have to reverse engineer what's bothering me. Sometimes I can suss it out, sometimes I can't.
Whether that difference is important is probably down to the individual. For some it won't, in which case Topping all the way. Why waste your money. For others it will, in which case be prepared to spend more.
Also, the gear it's attached to is relevant. My Dali Opticon 2 Mk2 I could throw any DAC on and the difference wasn't important enough for me to worry about. A Topping or Eversolo with these was just fine. When I got the Dynaudio Heritage Special in, which are stupidly resolving and revealing - to the point of annoyance some times - DAC choice became more significant. (FWIW: the 3 AKM/ESS DACs I tried with Dynaudio created a clear sharpness/edge to guitar fret noise which was not pleasant to my ears. Didn't have that "scratchy" issue with a Chord or a Merason. Imagined or real, I dunno. I'd like to think I could pick that out blind quite easily. I'm tempted to get one of those ABX boxes)
A ton of other factors too... room background noise levels, hearing range (one of my friends can only hear up to 7khz!), choice of music, room acoustics, vol level you listen at etc. will all effect whether the subtle differences are more or less important.
A 72yo dude who can barely hear up to 9khz, listening in a room with a ton of room reverb and double digit dB room nodes, with a background ambient noise of 40-50db, listening on his Kef LS50s at 70dB peak vol is likely to have a different experience with DACs than a 21yo chappy with 20khz hearing in a perfectly treated room with 30dB ambient noise, listening to some Magico floor standers at 90dB peaks, for example.
Roog
pfm Member
I too have a bundle of DACs from Naim, Chord Electronics, Audioquest, Audio note and RME and they sound very similar to me to the point that I would only worry about features in any competently measuring DAC implementation.
Roog
pfm Member
Good listen.
There is a lot of talk about being able to hear 'x' frequency or not, having seem my hearing test results on a number of occasions it is very obvious that my hearing frequency response doesn't drop off a cliff and just because you can hear something at close range to a tweeter doesn't mean that details at those frequencies on full band music will be audible. This is why signal to noise ratio matters. I liked the bit where he says, I can hear even higher frequencies if I turn it up!
It comes as no surprise to me that I cannot hear the differences between practically implemented filters :0( but that there is no point in me worrying about this :0)
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