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Top 5 Worst Sounding Integrated Amps

ex brickie said:
I don’t think I choose how to feel - and if I’m finding that Linn dealers in particular have a tendency to impose a view do you think that’s a legitimate way of doing business? Yes I could choose different dealers and brands - but if I want to listen to Linn then I don’t want to be put off from doing so.

It appears to me they’ve been trained in particular psychological techniques (no doubt it will be denied). I’ve not found it in non Linn dealers .

Over a period of years I have bought from (not just visited) at least 4 in and around London (only one of which didn’t try to impose their own ears on the demo) and one in the NW of England (I won’t name the town/city as I don’t intend naming and shaming). Also if I want to hear upgrades to my LP12 I need at least a semi- reasonable relationship with a dealer.

I’m in west Wales - there isn’t exactly a multitude of Linn dealers I can access if you are suggesting I go elsewhere

I’m simply pointing out that it isn’t only magazines that push certain components - Linn dealers (IME) have been doing it for years.
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It’s a shame that’s been your experience. I’ve suffered through that experience from one or two, also. However, I can also think of many Linn dealers who weren’t like that, in their defence. There was a time when there were more of those guys about but for the most part, not anymore, thankfully. There was one Linn rep (late 80s into 90s) especially who was fanatical and certainly influenced people (and ruined a Pink Triangle demo I was doing, once!) but I don’t think it came from the company as a policy. More a senior staff member over-reaching and eventually doing more harm than good.
 
pocketkitchen said:
It’s a shame that’s been your experience. I’ve suffered through that experience from one or two, also. However, I can also think of many Linn dealers who weren’t like that, in their defence. There was a time when there were more of those guys about but for the most part, not anymore, thankfully. There was one Linn rep (late 80s into 90s) especially who was fanatical and certainly influenced people (and ruined a Pink Triangle demo I was doing, once!) but I don’t think it came from the company as a policy. More a senior staff member over-reaching and eventually doing more harm than good.
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Many companies policy is to train sellers in all kind of sales technique.
Thats a natural process if you work with sales.

How fanatic or talented the sales person perform is another matter.
Bad judgement and behavior if customers feel intimidated when leaving the shop.

We are different individuals, some feel those things personal or bad, others not.
Good thing to tell the dealer your experience, they might learn by that.(or not)
 
PerF said:
Many companies policy is to train sellers in all kind of sales technique.
Thats a natural process if you work with sales.

How fanatic or talented the sales person perform is another matter.
Bad judgement and behavior if customers feel intimidated when leaving the shop.

We are different individuals, some feel those things personal or bad, others not.
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I quite agree, my own experience of an over-keen Linn salesman’s “technique” was grim and led to me not buying anything at all.

The demo that was ruined was another matter. Little Pink Thing vs Axis was the order of the day and the visiting Linn rep was volubly all for a fair AB comparison until the customer expressed a preference for the Pink. At this point the rep piles in and point out every aspect that he didn’t like about it. Absolute numpty. Needless to say, the customer bought nothing and didn’t return. Pressure tactics rarely work!
 
@pocketkitchen I agree this type of sales technique was more prevalent years back than now. And maybe I'm still over sensitive to it when I visit a Linn dealer. In the last 3 years though I had a complete opposite of experiences visiting two dealers in one town/city on the same day (I wanted to upgrade and trade-in speakers). I went to two because they had very different brands (as you'd expect) and wanted to try as many as I could.
The Linn dealer was over attentive (but note quite hard sell). The other gave my wife and I the demo room, the remote controls and stayed in another room while we chose and played the music. The dealer only popped up when we needed him to swap the speakers. Much more relaxing. I bought from him.....
 
I don’t think I choose how to feel - and if I’m finding that Linn dealers in particular have a tendency to impose a view do you think that’s a legitimate way of doing business?
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whether you’re aware of it or not, you are absolutely and completely in charge of how you choose to feel. I suspect you bring much of your dealer’s ‘attitude’ in with you.
 
pocketkitchen said:
I quite agree, my own experience of an over-keen Linn salesman’s “technique” was grim and led to me not buying anything at all.

The demo that was ruined was another matter. Little Pink Thing vs Axis was the order of the day and the visiting Linn rep was volubly all for a fair AB comparison until the customer expressed a preference for the Pink. At this point the rep piles in and point out every aspect that he didn’t like about it. Absolute numpty. Needless to say, the customer bought nothing and didn’t return. Pressure tactics rarely work!
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Yes I remember a dealer back in the mid 90’s demoing a pair of big active Linn speakers, some acoustic guitar playing, telling me this is how a guitar sounds in real life. At that time I was playing guitar in three bands 6 nights a week. There were wa no
pocketkitchen said:
I quite agree, my own experience of an over-keen Linn salesman’s “technique” was grim and led to me not buying anything at all.

The demo that was ruined was another matter. Little Pink Thing vs Axis was the order of the day and the visiting Linn rep was volubly all for a fair AB comparison until the customer expressed a preference for the Pink. At this point the rep piles in and point out every aspect that he didn’t like about it. Absolute numpty. Needless to say, the customer bought nothing and didn’t return. Pressure tactics rarely work!
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Back in the mid nineties there was a local dealer in the NE. I was picking up an Ittok that had its bearings checked. He wanted me to listen to some big Actives they had playing. The music was acoustic guitar and he kept telling me that he played guitar and this is exactly how it sounds. At that time I was playing guitar in bars in a couple of bands several nights a week and was thinking the complete opposite as there was no overtones just this clipped sound - almost like a semi acoustic. All down to profit margins I guess.
 
Geoffreybombom said:
It’s interesting that Rotel and Sansui dont get a hammering on this post
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can't speak for Sansui, never having owned or hard any.

Rotel, I have had a few ranging from an old RA820A to RA05SE, for the money I can not fault them and short of back to back tests I was more than happy with them
 
I prefered my Rotel RC/RB970bx to both the Audiolab 8000a and the Arcam Delta 290
Adding a second RB power amp and monoblocking them seemed to me to add a
nice increase in clarity and of course can go effortlessly loud.

Regards Andy
 
When the Arcam alpha 10 came out (mid to late 90s?), I upgraded to it from the Arcam alpha 6+ and found it harsh in the midrange.
 
  • Primare 121 - just an uninspiring listen.
  • Audiolab 8000A - the original one rolled off the bass on the phono input.
 
Perhaps the previous one was just soft, or needed service. Old caps tend to do that, soften the sound. You were just used to that sound, and it suited your speakers.
I have been listening to the (fully restored) much maligned LV-105 (not U) lately and it came as a surprise. I expected valve sound but no. It’s a fine amp in the end, with a really superb MC stage to boot.
My point is, you can’t really blame anything before it has been thoroughly restored and re-aligned.
 
Gervais Cote said:
Agree 100%, never understood all the hype for these brands.
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I'm criticising individual items rather than the brands themselves. My current amplifier is a Primare A34.2 & a Pre32. My DAC is an Audiolab M-DAC+, all of which I'm more than happy with.
A friend once owned a Pioneer A400 integrated that I could not understand why it was so highly rated.
 
toprepairman said:
As already mentioned, Rogers Ravensbourne, ghastly thing which used driver transformers as per cheap transistor portable radios.
Also the MF B1, dreadful, the complete antithesis of the A1, most other MF offerings were usually quite good.
As also mentioned the Amstrad, Eagle and other such junk which includes the Nytech and am not too impressed by Cyrus.
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I quite liked my mf b1...still have it, thought its phonostage pretty good too
 
pocketkitchen said:
Phono stages from later on in many Japanese amps were routinely terrible and were there as an afterthought as the mantra at the time was that vinyl was dead and CD the way forward.
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The service manual for my Yamaha A-S701 shows 470 pF on the phono inputs. One day I will get round to opening it to have a look and change to a more sensible 100 pF for modern cartridges.
Shure era capacitance is a good way to ruin the sound.
 
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