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Tone Poet Blue Notes

I like it, though I think it is clearly a transitional period where he was moving from hard-bop, but hadn’t found the chilled soul-jazz groove of the later Atlantic stuff (e.g. Black Angel) or Red Clay on CTI. He always moved about a lot and wasn’t afraid to experiment, e.g. the Atlantic Sing Me A Song Of Songmy I mention upthread is just crazy in every respect. One of the most bonkers jazz experimental albums I own. Have a listen on YouTube or wherever, it is a very odd thing!
 
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Graham H said:
A nice remastering maybe, but here’s an alternative take on the music:

https://londonjazzcollector.wordpre...hubbard-breaking-point-1964-blue-noteliberty/
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Graham,
Of course he is entitled to his own opinion in what he thinks about this and other Jazz and Jazz musicians he finds favour with or even dislikes as is anyone. Even though I do appreciate his research and the detail of his findings on all Jazz original recordings and pressings, especially those on Blue Note I think we both know and both have criticised his semi conservative taste in the music that in fairness he freely admits to some extent. I think he would certainly be ‘out of his depth’ with a lot of the Avant Garde Music you like ;) as well as a lot of my own taste in Jazz.

Although he compares this unfavourably on the “ Out There bandwagon”, a somewhat overall derogatory general phrase, to McLean and Moncur he to my recall has hardly been enthusiastic at least about Jackie’s more exploratory output as well as his tone in the past. Note he also considers Hubbard as really “essential” up 1965 and only Notes those beyond this date. I think I have 6 of these in one or more pressings, but I think I would rate Breaking Point above all of them, particular in what this pressing reveals. I played Hub-tones (BN80 reissue) immediately after Breaking Point as I wanted to compare the combination of Hubbard and Spaulding on this. While I think it is very good I personally would rate Breaking Point higher, especially with this pressing.

He is very critical of Spaulding on Breaking Point and I admit that in the past I have also under appreciated his playing. I would say flute is also one of my less favourite Jazz instruments as well (perhaps only coming in a little higher than organ for me ;)), but although he his better on Alto I find his flute playing almost convinces me on this. At least he appreciates Mathews, Khan and Chambers as “Rock Solid”. I can’t agree more with this as I pointed out in my post above.

More than half of his criticism here seems directed at the particular Blue Note Liberty Pressing here and as usual his expertise as “a collector” comes across as where he is most comfortable in expressing a knowledgable opinion. Perhaps he should listen to this Tone Poet mastering and pressing (he has shown some appreciation of the quality of these where he has been highly critical of most modern reissues in the past). Perhaps that might make him also appreciate the playing on this a bit more as well? :D
 
Tony L said:
He always moved about a lot and wasn’t afraid to experiment, e.g. the Atlantic Sing Me A Song Of Songmy I mention upthread is just crazy in every respect. One of the most bonkers jazz experimental albums I own. Have a listen on YouTube or wherever, it is a very odd thing!
Click to expand...

I have a copy of Sing Me A Song of Songmy (A Fantasy for Electromagnetic Tape), I know it well, although I hear it as a Ilhan Mimaroglu piece composed for Freddie Hubbard (it was composed and arranged by Mimaroglu). From what I can gather it has been credited to Hubbard to sell a few copies, although kudos to him for being involved - there aren’t too many electroacoustic or music concrete jazz albums kicking about, which might be a shame. As you say, well worth hearing - at least once - although I can’t imagine LJC getting behind it.
 
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I really like it as I’m a big fan of that kind of early electronica, though the hippy psychology spoken pieces are very much of its era! Must dig it out for a spin. I’ve got High Blues Pressure, The Black Angel and it as lovely US first pressings.

PS I know it’s the wrong thread, but I am absolutely loving the Brother Jack McDuff Moonrappin’. That thing grooves! More of that please Blue Note.
 
I’m trying to keep up with this thread and the Classic Vinyl one, but keep getting sidetracked by releases that have been and gone, are forthcoming or are simply being wished for. I’m just trying to put a little trade in the direction of my local indie dealer (he’s a good sort.) What do you think I should I ask him to get for me in order to make my wallet £40 lighter this month (if he doesn’t have it in stock already?)
 
Marchbanks said:
I’m trying to keep up with this thread and the Classic Vinyl one, but keep getting sidetracked by releases that have been and gone, are forthcoming or are simply being wished for. I’m just trying to put a little trade in the direction of my local indie dealer (he’s a good sort.) What do you think I should I ask him to get for me in order to make my wallet £40 lighter this month (if he doesn’t have it in stock already?)
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Marchbanks,
The problems with the the earlier Tone Poets and also with the Classics to some extent is although Blue Note have said they will remain “in print” most of the pressings runs of these sold out quite quickly, especially for the more popular titles. The demands currently on production and the associated delays means it seems it will take a long time before many come back into print so they are mainly unavailable at present except on the secondary market. A few titles do seem to have been repressed, but I think only in short runs and because of this and that they sell out again quickly in the States first Universal can’t seem to be bothered to import them to Europe at present.

I think from what I have seen of some of your posts elsewhere on Pinkfish you do seem to have wide tastes though and possibly also an extensive collection of vinyl, so you have have decent enough other pressings of a lot of these anyway? So it is difficult to know exact titles to suggest. It is possible to find some of the previous pressings around Stillman though. If you go here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=tone+poet+vinyl&crid=19NEO2OVNUZ2I&sprefix=Tone+,aps,434&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_5
or put in ‘Tone Poet vinyl’ in Amazon it indicates what they or their market place dealers may have in stock of these still. Be careful some shown are not Tone Poets that are showing up though. I am not suggesting given what you said in your post you need to buy from Amazon, but your local dealer may be able to obtain some of them as well if they are still around.

Of these my own personal first Choices would be:
Andrew Hill - Passing Ships (2 LP’s). Wayne Shorter - All Seeing Eye (Amazon have a good price for this one at present.) McCoy Tyner - Expansions. Tina Brooks - The Waiting Game or Back to the Tracks. Jackie McLean - Tippin The Scales. Sonny Clark - My Conception. But I doubt you would be disappointed with any of them for music or SQ.

You could of course get two of the BN80’s / Classics for about £40. My first choice here would be Cannonball Adderly - Something Else and Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage if you find them. If you put ‘Blue Note Classic Series’ into Amazon you get this:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=blue+note+classic+vinyl+series&crid=188LH5BIBT018&sprefix=Blue+Note+Classic+,aps,303&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_18
But it is even less accurate in selecting the right ones and strangely some very good Tone Poets appear within this that do not show up in the one above?
 
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Thanks very much for taking the time to write that. I’m trying to avoid duplicating too much, and tending towards ‘classic recordings’ although I’m more than happy to consider stuff outside my usual area (like the Brother Jack McDuff suggested by Tony. That’s on the list of possidefinites.) Also the Sonny Red TP which I know my indie has in stock. I wasn’t aware of Sonny’s existence before I saw the album, but it seems to be highly though of so that’s on the list too.

So duplication rules out Wayne, McCoy, Cannonball and Herbie. Andrew and Sonny C also go on the list. Tippin’ the Scales seems to have a Marmite reputation - might the BNC Destination Out be a better choice for a relative Jackie novice (only one CD at present*?)

So thanks again. When added to the Acoustic Sounds version of Crescent (which I only have in chronological recording order on the brown Impulse Quartets CD box) that will keep me going for a few months. If I ignore the first 109 pages of the thread and start from here I might be able to keep up with the (sometimes bafflingly arcane to me) discussion. Any record that gets a consensus here is likely to be OK by me...

And yes, you are right - I know I could probably buy cheaper from Amazon, but for me that would be ignoring a vital part of the exercise.

*Jackie’s Bag.
 
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^ Destination Out is essential in my book. Although Jackie is listed as leader I'd argue it's just as much a Grachan Moncur date - he wrote three of the four compositions and the record has far more in common his two BN LPs than most of Jackie's work. I think you'd really enjoy it.
 
The good thing about the Brother Jack McDuff is you almost certainly haven’t got a record like that. The problem with Blue Note, and I am a huge fan, is there’s an awful lot in my collection that being bluntly honest I couldn’t identify in a blind test. There is a point for me where a fair chunk of the hard-bop outside of the real classics stuff does just blur together in the same way a lot of 90s indie music does. I’ll likely get killed for admitting that, but I’m sure you could catch me out with Tone Poets pretty easily as a lot were hard-bop ‘blowing sessions’ that were actually shelved in their day.

That said I agree with the recommendations made above and would add Dexter Gordon’s One Flight Up, which is IMHO a top five Blue Note. It is right up there with Somethin’ Else, Soul Station, Midnight Blue, Maiden Voyage etc.
 
Marchbanks said:
Thanks very much for taking the time to write that. I’m trying to avoid duplicating too much, and tending towards ‘classic recordings’ although I’m more than happy to consider stuff outside my usual area (like the Brother Jack McDuff suggested by Tony. That’s on the list of possidefinites.) Also the Sunny Red TP which I know my indie has in stock. I wasn’t aware of Sunny’s existence before I saw the album, but it seems to be highly though of so that’s on the list too.

So duplication rules out Wayne, McCoy, Cannonball and Herbie. Andrew and Sonny also go on the list. Tippin’ the Scales seems to have a Marmite reputation - might the BNC Destination Out be a better choice for a relative Jackie novice (only one CD at present*?)

So thanks again. When added to the Acoustic Sounds version of Crescent (which I only have in chronological recording order on the brown Impulse Quartets CD box) that will keep me going for a few months. If I ignore the first 109 pages of the thread and start from here I might be able to keep up with the (sometimes bafflingly arcane to me) discussion. Any record that gets a consensus here is likely to be OK by me...

And yes, you are right - I know I could probably buy cheaper from Amazon, but for me that would be ignoring a vital part of the exercise.

*Jackie’s Bag.
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I recommend Katanga, my second favourite TP after Passing Ships. Think it is still available unlike some of the other earlier TP releases. Such a dynamic, alive sounding recording.
 
Marchbanks said:
So duplication rules out Wayne, McCoy, Cannonball and Herbie. Andrew and Sonny also go on the list. Tippin’ the Scales seems to have a Marmite reputation - might the BNC Destination Out be a better choice for a relative Jackie novice (only one CD at present*?)

*Jackie’s Bag.
Click to expand...
I tried to stick to the ones I thought might be reasonably available still, especially to a local dealer. I also tended to concentrate most on the Tone Poet thread and ignore ones that seem difficult to find now like One Flight Up (excellent and top SQ as well) even though some of these might clearly be preferable choices. I did miss some while scanning through and Katanga (really excellent) was one that seems available still as is Corea’s Now He Sings Now he Sobs, surprisingly as this was one of the first releases. Unfortunately didn’t pay so much attention to the Classics as I had very good pressings such as the Music Matters of a lot of these so I passed on most. Destination Out is the better choice, available and I have this one, rather than Tippin The Scales as Paul says. I think Moncur’s Evolution is scheduled for a Classic some time in the future, I have the MM of that. I hoping they do Mclean’s One Step Beyond soon though. As with Quite a few Blue Notes it is debatable who really is the featured artist as Alfred Lion tended to swap them around a bit from the same or similar group of musicians to share things out and I think that explains Tony’s comment to some extent. I think the leader got paid a bit more.:)

Jackie’s Bag is not in either series yet, but was a Music Matters so won’t be a Tone Poet. I don’t have that so I’m hoping that gets a Classic release sometime as well.
 
Thanks Tony, Poco, Paul, Bish, Gav - that’s been very useful, and a big help.

Oh yes, one last thing - am I right in thinking the Sonny Red TP generally went down well here?

Edit: oops, Sonny Red, not Sunny. Sorry Sonny. Why did I think that? Changed wherever possible.
 
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I have around 15. For me the crucial ones are both the Wayne Shorters, both Andrew Hills, One Flight Up and McCoy Tyner’s Expansions. Soft spot for Herbie Hancock’s The Prisoner as well, which isn’t often mentioned.

Oh and the Ornette Coleman box set! One of the nicest things I own.
 
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