To Parents of 16 and 18 year olds

[Vinny]

If you're going to raise marks for some types of schools then it follows that others have to fall to maintain to required overall distribution - that is obviously what they've done.

NO - THEY (whoever "they" are supposed to be), have not. A crap algorithm has.

If you are having a dig at public schools and the fact that there grades have not changed, or increased - do some reading before throwing mud. Perfectly respectable educationalists have put forward entirely reasonable arguments for why.

 

[ks.234]

And it would be astonishing, totally unbelievable, if an appeal did not sort the extremes, but extremes make for very bad general rules.

But what evidence will the appeals process look at? It will have to be the same algorithm that produced the original anomaly or something like teacher predictions. If teacher predictions are used on appeals against extremes, why not for less extreme cases? Why not across the board?

 

[ks.234]

NO - THEY (whoever "they" are supposed to be), have not. A crap algorithm has.

But ‘they’ designed the algorithm.

Who ‘they’ is, is just one of the questions that should be being asked, but isn’t

 

[gavreid]

NO - THEY (whoever "they" are supposed to be), have not. A crap algorithm has.

If you are having a dig at public schools and the fact that there grades have not changed, or increased - do some reading before throwing mud. Perfectly respectable educationalists have put forward entirely reasonable arguments for why.

Public schools, academies and other selective schools - i put up the link the other day.

 

[Vinny]

But what evidence will the appeals process look at? It will have to be the same algorithm that produced the original anomaly

Where did that gem of wisdom come from?

How can you use an algorithm to look at an individual result? It is akin to using the latest census result to determine the age of the person stood next to me in the queue at Sainsbury's.

 

[Vinny]

Public schools, academies and other selective schools - i put up the link the other day.

And?

Did you like to any learned discussion as to why? I'll not search but take a guess - "NO".

 

[Vinny]

But ‘they’ designed the algorithm.

Who ‘they’ is, is just one of the questions that should be being asked, but isn’t

I can absolutely guarantee it was not a politician - they are far from bright enough.

 

[gavreid]

And?

Did you like to any learned discussion as to why? I'll not search but take a guess - "NO".

I'll repeat what I said

If you're going to raise marks for some types of schools then it follows that others have to fall to maintain to required overall distribution. It's a statement of fact

 

[ks.234]

There is a lot of blame being placed on teachers for over predicting and creating grade inflation. However, if this algorithm produces anomalies at the bottom such as pupils getting a U where they should be getting a decent pass grade, it will also produce anomalies at the top with pupils getting A* instead of, for example, B’s.

Why is no one in politics or media concerned about grade inflation at the top?

The answer is of course the fact that grade inflation at the top has benefited the sort of schools attended by the sons and daughters of those in politics and the media.

This government with it’s allies in the media is blaming teachers to deflect from the in built bias towards privilege that this algorithm has exposed.

This is the real scandal

 

[Vinny]

I'll repeat what I said

If you're going to raise marks for some types of schools then it follows that others have to fall to maintain to required overall distribution. It's a statement of fact

OK, agreed, you can do very simple maths. And?

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

This is, if nothing else, as good an argument for continuous assessment as we are going to see, isn’t it?

Isn't that, effectively, what teacher grades are?

I understand your point, but a proper form of CA would remove the element of subjectivity, and any suspicion of bias, from a purely teacher-assessed prediction.

 

[ks.234]

I can absolutely guarantee it was not a politician - they are far from bright enough.

Cummings

 

[Vinny]

I understand your point, but a proper form of CA would remove the element of subjectivity, and any suspicion of bias, from a purely teacher-assessed prediction.

Agreed - it was a bit tongue in cheek really.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I can absolutely guarantee it was not a politician - they are far from bright enough.

Cummings

I’m somewhat loath to perpetuate the myth of Cummings’ intellect, but it seems to me that the algorithm would have to be written by coders, obvs, but developed to a set of criteria set by, probably, senior Ofsted people and government. So I’d be pretty confident that a politician’s paw marks are all over this. The ‘tell’ is the fact that it is such a farrago - that usually implies a kludge to mash together conflicting (invariably political) requirements.

 

[stephen bennett]

IF School = posh THEN Mark = mark + 10, would give the game away

I know you're joking, but for small cohort schools it's effectively true.

Small cohorts=posh (usually).

From Wonkhe

Algorithm is a scary sounding word, but the workings are very simple. In most cases, your rank (by subject and school) would determine your position (and thus grade) on a curve defined by previous groups. For small cohorts, we add in grades estimated by teachers (the Centre Estimated Grades, CEG).

Stephen

 

[gavreid]

OK, agreed, you can do very simple maths. And?

Nearly a 5% increase on the year in As and A*s in private schools. This has to be offset by something...

 

[stephen bennett]

I’m somewhat loath to perpetuate the myth of Cummings’ intellect, but it seems to me that the algorithm would have to be written by coders, obvs, but developed to a set of criteria set by, probably, senior Ofsted people and government. So I’d be pretty confident that a politician’s paw marks are all over this. The ‘tell’ is the fact that it is such a farrago - that usually implies a kludge to mash together conflicting (invariably political) requirements.

Cummings has a grasp of the importance of science and data but no deep understanding.

A bit like his 'boss'' use of the classics.

Stephen

 

[stephen bennett]

Where’s Keir?

Where's Johnson?

Stephen

 

[gavreid]

Small cohorts=posh (usually).

Sure, nobody else can afford to teach small groups

 

[ks.234]

Where's Johnson?

Stephen

The Boris is all over the place. Telling teachers they have a ‘moral duty’ to ignore the government’s own health and safety guidelines.

Starmer is now echoing the Boris. He’s using Johnson’s language but with a different haircut.