Time for a motorbike list

[anthonyb]

BTW, those leathers were cut off me at Pembrey. But the bike could have continued, even after going down at about 100mph. I couldn't. I can show you the x-ray and photos if you've had breakfast.

Ouch! I came off my other bike at 15mph and that had me hobbling for a few months, can't imagine (and don't want to see!) what a 100mph spill would do to a human being.

 

[Arkless Electronics]

Bikes are a bugger like that. For about 15 years I hardly drove, and still finding it boring. Mind you, I never had a car like yours!
I couldn't justify the expense of the Superbike School, particularly as I didn't have a superbike (just a Suzuki SV650S- twice!), but read all Keith Code's books. I did do a couple of race schools at Cadwell, and lots of track days at the old Anglesey circuit, and still look at the wrong point at times. Knowing what I should do isn't the same as actually accomplishing it. I wasn't trying to be critical, just helpful, as I didn't know if you were aware of your lines. But obviously you are!

I've still never owned a car....

 

[-alan-]

Cool pic Arkless - not too shabby for an oul lad at all

Despite years in cars on track, I'm only daring to venture out on the bike next month for the first time. It's only a 'training day' under close scrutiny from instructors to stop folk like me getting carried away no doubt - and I can but imagine the look on folks faces when they see a bright orange Vrod (with panniers) grumbling into the paddock.

(Anthony - mine's a very early S2 exige - last of the NA ones. Bog standard engine, barring a sensible exhaust and remap but loads of suspension tweaks which make it a little bit too compromised for road use these days - hence the languishing in the garage )

 

[-alan-]

I had a 1971 Lotus ELan +2 with Spyder chassis and 2 litre Mondeo motor, and then a BBR Turbo in recent years. They were OK. But I just can't get into it any more. The fun, not the car!

I did at one stage help shoe-horn a fairly chunky race-driver into the left seat of an Elise I owned. Fine on track - he definitely was well wedged in, and wasn't going anywhere, but afterwards ..
We had to take the roof off - for starters - and even then, I thought we'd never get him out

 

[richardg]

LOL...I test drove a VX220 once, the non-turbo one. Getting out on hands and knees was not the deal breaker. It just did not feel that fast

 

[-alan-]

That brings back memories Rich. A friend bought an Elise, and offered a work colleague a quick lift down to the station as he was going past it anyway. He tells the story of how the colleague (a pretty senior/elderly enough figure in the advertising industry) ended up on his knees, kerbside, facing the rear of the vehicle, stuck at the lights with a queue of about 30 cars honking their horns and calling down many blessings upon him - all in front of the main entrance to Connolly Station in Dublin

The VX has a horrible engine btw - it's just too leggy and slow revving for that kind of a car - feels a lot slower than it is. The turbo'ed ones are quite quick, but they still never actually feel like it. You really need some kind of Jap VVTLi/ Vtech screamer of a mill in them before they start to come alive.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Despite years in cars on track, I'm only daring to venture out on the bike next month for the first time. It's only a 'training day' under close scrutiny from instructors to stop folk like me getting carried away no doubt - and I can but imagine the look on folks faces when they see a bright orange Vrod (with panniers) grumbling into the paddock.

I've always had a hankering to take the Guzzi round with all its panniers. But the first bend would probably finish it! And I went on an IAM day at Mallory with a friend. I kept getting told off for getting too close I would arrive at a bend much faster than the rider in front, haul on the brakes but still end up alongside. So I would look over, wave to them as if to say "after you", and follow them round.

 

[-alan-]

The subtle arts of backing 'er in, squaring off the corner and laying darkies (Gary McCoy style) on the exit - never really made it into Roadcraft I'm guessing..

 

[anthonyb]

(Anthony - mine's a very early S2 exige - last of the NA ones. Bog standard engine, barring a sensible exhaust and remap but loads of suspension tweaks which make it a little bit too compromised for road use these days - hence the languishing in the garage )

Aha yes, I had the same model, then the first supercharged S2, both in yellow. Also had the NA VX220 which was my first 'proper' sports car. They weren't made very well and the bodywork would start bubbling. That said my GTR had a complete respray under warranty when it was 1 years old as it was rusting everywhere! Anyway enough cars!...

I'm thinking about upgrading to the BMW S1000R when my one year NCB comes up (insurance quote was £11k last year!) but something tells me all that extra power might not mean much more fun than the Striple. Anyone tried?

 

[richardg]

The subtle arts of backing 'er in, squaring off the corner and laying darkies (Gary McCoy style) on the exit - never really made it into Roadcraft I'm guessing..

this is a relatively new technique, isn't it. I never even got my knee down.

I wonder if the fact that it helps them stay more upright in the bend is a benefit for fast exits. Or is it a ll a bit Randy Mamola?

 

[-alan-]

Good question.

There's a book called Techniques of Motorcycle Road Racing by Kenny Roberts (Snr) - well written and full of interesting stuff on both technique and the evolution of the sport. Roberts sets out the view up to a point in the early 70s the standard 'European' cornering technique relied on trail-braking hard into the apex, leaning heavily on the front and trying to maintain high corner speed all the way round. The 'early 'Merkin road racers on the other hand all had to compete in both flat-track and road racing as part of their AMA Championship season. In the flattrack events, riding in the dirt and having no front brake, they became very adept at riding beyond the limits of grip, and were comfortable with getting the back loose to help get round a turn. He said he first became aware of the difference in style after a race with Barry Sheene back in early US-UK match races when he noticed Sheene's front tyre was almost down to the canvas with the back in reasonable shape - and for him it was the reverse. Roberts' view was that riders who rely on pushing the front can't really overstep the limit too often, or they will go down heavily when they do - whereas ones who push the rear can get consistently closer to (and beyond) the limits of grip, and be better able to control it.

McCoy came on the scene a bit later. I don't know his background - but looking at the pic there, that looks to be a 500cc two-stroke - from the crazy 2000rpm wide power-band era*. I think with those things, and the binary on-off power delivery, in order to avoid the power coming on mid corner and firing you off, one approach was to wick it open earlier, let the back come round and try to manage it on the way through.

*"The Unrideables"

- Always reminds me of a quote from elsewhere that F1 cars (and MotoGP bikes) aren't meant to be for drivers/riders to enjoy, but to beat the other machinery produced by the very best manufacturers on the planet - and often that ain't a whole lot of fun

 

[awkwardbydesign]

this is a relatively new technique, isn't it. I never even got my knee down.

I wonder if the fact that it helps them stay more upright in the bend is a benefit for fast exits. Or is it a ll a bit Randy Mamola?

I can't answer for backing it in, something I don't have the ability for, but "hanging off" does mean less lean angle for the bike, and on the way out of corners the bike can be stood up earlier, so getting on the power earlier. Even I do that! And when I went from the SV to the Fireblade, with it's fat back tyre, it was the only way to get it to corner at speed*. The two tyres have different radius turning circles, so need forcing, as I understand it. Older bikes, with less difference between front and rear tyres didn't really need it.
* I use the word in its loosest sense.

 

[-alan-]

For anybody interested in how/why racing motorcyclists corner the way they do now, and what it was different in the past - this is pretty good:

If you only want the evolution from knee-down to elbow scraping - fast forward to 2/3 the way through

 

[Paul56]

For anybody interested in how/why racing motorcyclists corner the way they do now, and what it was different in the past - this is pretty good:

If you only want the evolution from knee-down to elbow scraping - fast forward to 2/3 the way through

Love the photo of the rider with a cigarette at 2.46 ... keep her lit!

 

[richardg]

There is no good reason why boring political threads are in one's face in off-topic all the time, whilst more interesting threads about motorbikes drop off.

Bump

 

[ks.234]

One very good reason for banning this thread is that I haven't had a bike for 18 months, the sun is starting to shine and I'm getting that familiar itchy feeling in the palm of my right hand.

 

[richardg]

I have just bought a KLE 500 for 450 quid. Well I bought it a couple of months ago, it arrives by courier tomorrow.

 

[ks.234]

I have just bought a KLE 500 for 450 quid. Well I bought it a couple of months ago, it arrives by courier tomorrow.

That's it. Rub it in why don't ya

 

[stevec67]

That looked like a storming deal. I didn't know you could get a working bike for that sort of money, I thought they held on to a bit of residual value at the end of their lives, unlike cars. The thing is that most people have space to shove a bike in a shed, whereas a car becomes a liability and gets scrapped, hence being able to buy a banger for <500. What's the going rate for a KLE500 in running order, maybe in need of a bit of a service? Are they worth buying? (Evidently yes, you bought one).

 

[richardg]

Well they have the gpz 500 motor so there is a good start. Quite peaky, reliable and good feeling to ride.

But the KLE has poor suspension, so they are not popular like the Africa Twin, Transalp and all the others. This can be sorted with better springs and shocks off other bikes. They are probably the cheapest big twin trailie out there. They are also not popular because most people like low grunt on a twin. I differ. I prefer two-stroke delivery, power a the top, so I don't break traction at low revs. A grand gets you a minter from the early 90s. Mine needs its TUV and tank respraying as it rotted through. TUV is a bit tougher than MOT. Otherwise it would have been a grand probably.

Overall, they are nicely finished, with nicely coated frames and engine casings, so no horrible corrosion in difficult to sort out places. The big selling point for me over other old trailies of that era and later is the engine sits quite low compare to a v twin, making the bike feel lighter than it is.

I believe at its nadir, Kawaskai were selling them for about £3,800 new, as recently as 2004. By this time they were outdated dogs in comparison with a rubbish solution for emissions. Power was down by at least 10%. So get the pre 2003 ones I think or you are stuck with a horrible exhaust and if you take it off it fails it s MOT.

My old dog: