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Those who have moved on from Naim.....

I used a Naim 122x and 150x pre and power amp for ten years. I wanted to upgrade but my budget made me consider others. Rega Elicir R was one I tried but it didn’t draw me into the music as much as a Heed Obelisk MK2 that I also auditioned.
The Heed was much more to my liking, adding the richness to the tone that I was looking for.
I still have the excellent Naim CD5X and Flatcap though.
 
Woodface said:
What do you have now?

To be honest the multi boxes have less appeal than they did. Not sure why?
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I’m at a bit of a transition point. I’m using a 112X / 150X, which has really surprised me in a very positive way considering the tiny cost relative to the bigger Naim amps. It’s highlighted to me what a huge law of diminishing returns Naim is. It’s for sale though because I’m going Linn DSM and it doesn’t really fit into this architecture. Cymbiosis sent me a Linn promotion where you spend £3K on Linn and get a free Karousel upgrade. Not sure if I want to start butchering my original 1974 Sondek but it’s worth considering I think.
 
Woodface said:
Yep & at the same time you could get that top level olive system that was out of reach back in the day. A bit like buying a car from your youth.

I find the whole thing with hifi rather odd. I have spent fortunes in the past, I have a really nice system but as I’ve got older & have a bit more perspective I find it hard to credit my past behaviour. I no longer envy other people’s systems though, I am happy with my choices & know I could ultimately change things if I wanted to for ‘level money’.

I find it amusing that individuals go on about having one thing & then change to another as if they have re-invented the wheel. Ultimately all they have done is spent some money.
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I think that makes perfect sense, but it also misses part of the equation - as much as most here would probably want to resist the idea that it motivated them, as well as buying something made by a brand, people often buy into a brand.

With Naim there's significant (at least potential) pride of ownership - it's often well-regarded in the magazines, arguably looks stylish, has certain brand values around individuality (see: JV, PRAT mythology, DIN plugs, power supply idiosyncrasies etc.), is reassuringly expensive, perceptions of quality of engineering, legacy support, re-sale value etc etc etc. Other brands have their baggage too, of course, but Naim's one of the more prominent examples in hifi.

All of that's separate from how it actually sounds, but I definitely think it's involved in the perceptions of the brand. And rolling all of that stuff into ownership can make it seem a bigger deal than it otherwise might be, even if the customer isn't consciously aware of it.

And weirdly, although I've just moved on to very different gear which I think sounds better (a Primaluna valve integrated), and did so because I think it sounds better, I think it was disaffection with the current perceived Naim brand values that made me finally act on my niggling sense that the sound wasn't quite right for me. I've tweaked and replaced and upgraded, but only after they announced the collaboration with a yacht company (which I find distasteful, though make no judgement about others if they don't) did I finally think that maybe the sound - as fine as it is - just wasn't right for me. In the end, SQ and happiness ruled, but some of that other stuff was probably involved in the psychology of it all. Or maybe I'm just shallow! (Albeit also sonically happier now).

Ponty said:
I like Naim. It’s well made, reliable, sounds good and can be fixed easily in the unlikely event of a problem.

I went to 252/Supercap/300 level. Enjoyed it immensely. Then I realised how much space it took up and how much money was sunk into it. I don’t regret it for a second but there are other options which offer great performance for a fraction of the cost and space requirements.
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I wonder why it is that people who've moved on - from anything, I suppose, but it's noticeable with Naim - always seem semi-reluctant to say what it is they've found that's so much better. Don't mean to single you out, this post was just an example. And I'm guessing SJB had it in mind when he explicitly asked why in the OP.
 
Ponty said:
I’m at a bit of a transition point. I’m using a 112X / 150X, which has really surprised me in a very positive way considering the tiny cost relative to the bigger Naim amps. It’s highlighted to me what a huge law of diminishing returns Naim is. It’s for sale though because I’m going Linn DSM and it doesn’t really fit into this architecture. Cymbiosis sent me a Linn promotion where you spend £3K on Linn and get a free Karousel upgrade. Not sure if I want to start butchering my original 1974 Sondek but it’s worth considering I think.
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It wouldn’t be butchery but you may not like the change? Since I have active ATCs I am toying with trying some alternatives, maybe a Bryson pre or ATC but my system does sound really good at the moment.
 
Dave***t said:
I think that makes perfect sense, but it also misses part of the equation - as much as most here would probably want to resist the idea that it motivated them, as well as buying something made by a brand, people often buy into a brand.

With Naim there's significant (at least potential) pride of ownership - it's often well-regarded in the magazines, arguably looks stylish, has certain brand values around individuality (see: JV, PRAT mythology, DIN plugs, power supply idiosyncrasies etc.), is reassuringly expensive, perceptions of quality of engineering, legacy support, re-sale value etc etc etc. Other brands have their baggage too, of course, but Naim's one of the more prominent examples in hifi.

All of that's separate from how it actually sounds, but I definitely think it's involved in the perceptions of the brand. And rolling all of that stuff into ownership can make it seem a bigger deal than it otherwise might be, even if the customer isn't consciously aware of it.

And weirdly, although I've just moved on to very different gear which I think sounds better (a Primaluna valve integrated), and did so because I think it sounds better, I think it was disaffection with the current perceived Naim brand values that made me finally act on my niggling sense that the sound wasn't quite right for me. I've tweaked and replaced and upgraded, but only after they announced the collaboration with a yacht company (which I find distasteful, though make no judgement about others if they don't) did I finally think that maybe the sound - as fine as it is - just wasn't right for me. In the end, SQ and happiness ruled, but some of that other stuff was probably involved in the psychology of it all. Or maybe I'm just shallow! (Albeit also sonically happier now).



I wonder why it is that people who've moved on - from anything, I suppose, but it's noticeable with Naim - always seem semi-reluctant to say what it is they've found that's so much better. Don't mean to single you out, this post was just an example. And I'm guessing SJB had it in mind when he explicitly asked why in the OP.
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Brand is really important, when I was spending on naim JV was still alive for most of the upgrade cycle & the company only really changed where it went VC owned. I used to like naim speakers. Ultimately it is reliable, fixable & saleable. Not all hifi brands share this.
 
I have owned a ton of Naim in the past; currently the only Naim pieces I have are the nDAC and a DVD5 (which I have to say is an amazing DVD player!).

After being deployed (hence my profile picture) I started back up the Naim ladder but did not enjoy the 202/NAPSC/HC/200 or 250 at all. I switched to Exposure (3010S2 CD and pre, 28 power) and it was like turning on a switch - my enjoyment of music turned back on. The Exposure gear sounds richer/warmer/more real, particularly on piano (my grandfather taught piano at Juilliard for 40+ years, and I grew up with him having a concert grand Bosendorfer in their dining room, so piano for me is a good reference point).

As some may have noticed, I've been experimenting with different preamps and amps, after changing speakers from Linn Helix 2s to Monitor Audio Gold GX300s, and am having lots of fun. Definitely needed now!
 
I ran Naim kit for twenty-odd years, culminating in an active Naim System fronted by full-fat LP12 and NDS driving SL2s. I sold everything in 2013 except the LP12 which went in 2016. I now run Pass labs amps driving Art Alnico 8s, sources from SME and Aesthetix/Lumin.

Much happier now, although I certainly wouldn’t be slumming it with the old system.
 
Nait 5 to Densen B 110
Naim CD 5 to Rega Dac/Apollo R
Naim is OK if you like it, however I´m happier with the actual system!
 
Had loads of Naim in the early days but it lost its magic . People imply this was down to the demise of JV but to my ears the 5 series was a step back and I believe he was involved in the development of that.

CDX and 82 didn’t do it for me

But credit where it is due, the early stuff was brilliant and I wish I had never sold my late 70s 12/Snaps/bolt top 250 .

I also still have a Nait 2 in the cupboard which for fun I occasionally hook up in place of ten grand of Dynavector amplification, and it doesn’t let itself down

Also the Aro was a work of genius, and the CD3 was the first CD player I heard that played music .
 
Naim Nac 252/SC + 2 x Naim Nap 200 (active set-up) to a lot of different things. I would return to that set-up with no regrets today. If I had kept that set-up way back, I would have been set for life, but I sold it to pay for a much-needed holiday at that time. And so the box-swapping began ...

I now have a very nice set-up again, however, again I am looking to slim down for other reasons than last I sold off the Naim Nac 252 + Nap 200s. This time I know what I will down-grade to, so I think I will be able to stay in the same league of sound quality: Leak Stereo 20 + Nottingham Analogue/Scheu/Funk Firm/Kuzma.

I also began with a modest Naim set-up: Nac 62 + Nap 140 and had alot of other Naim preamps (12,32.5,42) and a Nap 150x and a 160 + a Prefix through here, mainly after I sold the Nac 252.
 
As a teenager I aspired to the CB Naim stuff, and when I could actually afford a new Mk1 Nait, it stayed with me for a long time, with my Kans and a Xerxes/Alphason 101mcs/F9e.

I sort of gave up when records weren’t being made any more in the early nineties, but when they started coming back in, and I was earning some more money, it all sort of went crazy, and I went through 42.5/110 to 72/250, to 82 hicap to 52 supercap 135s with SBLs via Saras. At the same time my deck changed through sme 20 mk1&2 to model 30 mk1&2 in a very short time.

Until, at a Heathrow show, I went into the RT Services room where he had a Spectral system through modest Verity speakers and Accuphase source. Wow. Never heard anything so good before that. Spectral had the speed which had drawn me to Naim, but it had tonal detail, texture, a soundstage, a spatial sense and a naturalness that was something else.

so that was it. Gone up through the range. I tend to keep stuff in my main system for long periods - why wouldn’t you if you’re happy?
 
Woodface said:
It wouldn’t be butchery but you may not like the change? Since I have active ATCs I am toying with trying some alternatives, maybe a Bryson pre or ATC but my system does sound really good at the moment.
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I’d just like to keep it original rather than create triggers broom! It sounds great as it is.
 
Sloop John B said:
I can never get past the Vitus PR

“The elegant curves are a reminder of the hull of a yacht. The class and luxury is that of spacious, exclusive cabins. Sailing on the vast water gives you a sense of infinity, similar to the endless musical story that starts with the Vitus Audio Signature Series.”

That sort of shite just gives me cabin fever. You just know Rega could never come out with something like this.

.sjb
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agreed, but I wasn’t listening to the marketing blurb, just the music it played and that was very good.

the build quality is exception as you’d expect at this level
 
Dave***t said:
I wonder why it is that people who've moved on - from anything, I suppose, but it's noticeable with Naim - always seem semi-reluctant to say what it is they've found that's so much better.
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I don't mind saying what I liked and why I moved on from CDS3/252/250.2/SL2's to 8c's.

I had a bit of a hiatus with my system, which largely coincided with buying a piano. Learning that took a lot of my time - time that would have been spent listening to music on the Naim kit. When I reduced my work hours, I went back to the Naim, and realised that something was missing. Wasn't sure if it was because some of the kit needed servicing, or that listening to a piano everyday had altered my perception and hearing a bit!

I'd always wanted to go active, but the box count in the living room was already too much. Spotted the 8c thread on here, but before going that way showed Mrs C different actives from different brands, as aesthetics was going to also be an influencing factor. I also wanted to get my CDs ripped so they were more accessible, so researched how to do that for the long term. We binned Kii straight away on looks (sorry), and then ATC for similar reasons (I'd already listened to ATC Actives before - lovely). Then got in touch with Lee at Strictly Stereo, and the rest is history.

I'd say the new system is more accommodating of any genre of music that my Naim kit. It's more fit and forget, yet at the same time it seems more revealing and 3d. Mrs C finds it much easier to use, being accessible via her iPad. The 8c reproduces piano more to my liking that the Naim did, also - and bearing in mind I have a reference for that sound, that was influential in any decisions.

I really enjoyed my Naim journey. I met some now long-time friends from 'riders evenings', visiting others houses and listening to their kit and musical choices, but I also acknowledge I was a bit of a sheep, yearning for the next upgrade, rather than being satisfied with what I had.
 
I wonder why it is that people who've moved on - from anything, I suppose, but it's noticeable with Naim - always seem semi-reluctant to say what it is they've found that's so much better. Don't mean to single you out, this post was just an example. And I'm guessing SJB had it in mind when he explicitly asked why in the OP.[/QUOTE]

Financial decision in my case. Did enjoy the Naim in Rock, pop etc but as my tastes moved almost exclusively to Classical I was finding that the Naim wasn’t satisfying in most of this genre.Ok in string quartets, trios etc but it wasn’t as open in full scale orchestral. It wasn’t bad, just not good really. In a perverse way the financial pressures forced a moved onto equipment that was much better in these terms. Things I liked about the Naim were it’s very solid build, it’s tone which was solid and granite-like especially in acoustic and single voice. Things I didn’t like were the sometimes fatiguing sound in large scale works, the constant hiss through the speakers and the prospect of upgrading through the same brand which is rather expensive.
 
Del monaco said:
I wonder why it is that people who've moved on - from anything, I suppose, but it's noticeable with Naim - always seem semi-reluctant to say what it is they've found that's so much better. Don't mean to single you out, this post was just an example. And I'm guessing SJB had it in mind when he explicitly asked why in the OP.
Click to expand...

Financial decision in my case. Did enjoy the Naim in Rock, pop etc but as my tastes moved almost exclusively to Classical I was finding that the Naim wasn’t satisfying in most of this genre.Ok in string quartets, trios etc but it wasn’t as open in full scale orchestral. It wasn’t bad, just not good really. In a perverse way the financial pressures forced a moved onto equipment that was much better in these terms. Things I liked about the Naim were it’s very solid build, it’s tone which was solid and granite-like especially in acoustic and single voice. Things I didn’t like were the sometimes fatiguing sound in large scale works, the constant hiss through the speakers and the prospect of upgrading through the same brand which is rather expensive.[/QUOTE]

Forgot to add what I prefer about my current set up compared to this Naim.I have no reluctance in this. The cost is the first preference and the lack of a feeling that you need to upgrade. The second is that the alternative amplification has a less closed in characteristic with the Classical music I listen to. It reveals the detail and textures more easily and lets the music drop into a more natural soundstage than the Naim did. The Naim was more forward and uptight in this respect.The sound is also much less fatiguing.I can listen for hours without getting restless, a good sign. I consider the Naim an important part of my journey but I am also glad of the opportunity to look outside of this brand towards other solutions. I now have a system that I can live with indefinitely.
 
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