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Thorens 124 Motor not turning

That’s interesting, I still don’t understand why the coil matters, it’s just AC. As long as you get the right colours on the right post it shouldn’t matter, surely? It isn’t going to run backwards or anything.

My suspicion is you either have a short somewhere, and sadly if so may have burned a coil out. It isn’t a deal-breaker though as Audio Silente make replacements that allegedly better the originals (though he currently has nothing listed on eBay).
 
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Yes it is, I'm pretty sure now it's damaged coils causing the problem so I will order a replacement set.
 
Went to order replacement coils from Audio Silente. As I half expected they won't take orders from the UK. Too much hassle for a small business and yet another Brexit bonus, the joy that keeps on giving.
Luckily the deck's owner has a friend living in France so we will get the coils that way.
 
The ebay advert appears to be on ebay.co.uk, although the price is in dollars. UK is not listed in the the exempted delivery countries, so looks like they can be bought via this route, albeit at a higher cost than through the website.

Kevin
 
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kevinrt said:
The ebay advert appears to be on ebay.co.uk, although the price is in dollars. UK is not listed in the the exempted delivery countries, so looks like they can be bought via this route, albeit at a higher cost than through the website. Kevin
Click to expand...

Pre the U.K.(sic) exit from the E.U., I dealt direct with Audiosilente, and always found Simone a 'delight' to deal with.
However, later when I wanted to purchase an Audiosilente Idler Wheel for one of my Goldring decks, 'e-pay' appeared to be the only route available to this now isolated little island, and yes, it was more expensive.
Perhaps If you have friends in the E.U., it may be less expensive to pay the aditional postage.
Regards
Mike K.
 
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Excellent news. Nice split-weight 3012 too, albeit with the wrong-era headshell! I assume you are going to re-plinth it at some point? Worth playing with armboards too, the original SME perspex one pictured looks great, but is not well regarded from what I can make out. I have the 9” version as it was fitted to my 124 when I bought it, but I prefer plywood (and very loosely bolted-down to the 124).
 
Good spot on the headshell it's one of mine from a 3009S2 improved with an Shure V15 V in it. He has a correct headshell with a moving coil that I need to sort out SUTs to start using. So mine was perfect for test and set up.
 
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I've just seen a post on facebook from Chris Harban and know there will be several here who'll be interested to read, so am pasting the full content:

"For the TD124 motor..... sorry, this is not a fun opinion to have, but it is based on careful observations over a long period of time, and with quite a few TD124 motors. I have been avoiding making this post for long time now.

Shown in the photo is a particularly bad example of about 1 year of run time on an aftermarket bushing. I have not yet seen this much wear on a motor spindle with original bushings. In almost all cases, nowhere even close.

My current (strong) recommendation is to avoid replacing the motor bushings with aftermarket bushings. The alloy used in the original bushings is different, the new bushings cause excessive and immediate wear on the motor spindle due to being manufactured from an alloy which is not a good choice for a precision motor bushing. Acceptible results can be had, but longevity is the main issue for me. The difference between the new alloy and the original alloys is very significant in terms of the quality of the wear patterns created by the two different alloys. It is dead obvious if you know what to look for and set up a comparative experiment / example.

There have been various aftermarket options for TD124 motor bushings. Some of them are machined phosphor bronze bushings, and are of an alloy that is more friendly to the motor spindle, but they are not sintered, and thus, a complete non-starter for me. Some people might have what it takes to keep them lubricated, but in the long run, most will not and lubrication will eventually fail.

Because the original bushings are often worn, this presents a serious conundrum for the TD124. It is rare to open up an unmolested TD124 motor and see any real damage or wear on the spindle, even in motors where the lubrication failed long ago and they are all siezed up. Most often they look pretty good. The alloy used in the original bushings is pretty friendly on the specific finish and hardness of the motor spindle.

I have been developing a method of resizing the original bushings of the TD124 motor. This is definitely not DIY and also needing some specialized and not inexpensive equipment. There is a learning curve to it. I saved many of the bushings I have replaced in the past, so I had stock to experiment with and learn. I use precision collets in a turret lathe, set up with a specifically sized Deltronic 'tenth' pin to maintain the concentricity and i.d. dimensions of the bushing bore.

What can be done at home, is thoroughly cleaning the original bushings using heat, compressed air, ultrasonic cleansing in acetone (in a glass jar dipped into an ultrasonic tank. Multiple rounds using each of these methods in succession will clean out the porous structure. At the beginning, using compressed air will reveal that the porous structure is completely clogged. At the end, compressed air will reveal that the porous structure is clear and open again. They can then be recharged with oil, preferably in a vacuum, but in a pinch, in a heated oil bath.

Replace the motor felts and oil with Mobil DTE25.

If your motor case does not have an oiling access hole in the lower motor case half, I recommend learning where and how large the hole is, and drilling it. I do this to motor cases without the hole.

Keep your motors lubricated on a schedule based on frequency of usage. This is easier for me that for some, so your lubrication schedule will probably be different than mine, and results may vary.

If your original motor bushings are marginal in terms of wear, cleaning them as described above, and keeping them lubricated is a start, it will help.

Badly worn bushings can cause motor noise. These need to be re-sized.

While on the subject of motor noise, there are two brass retainers for holding the motor bushings secure. The 4 tabs on these are angled, and act like springs. These really should have been made from spring steel as they are in the Garrard 301 / 401, but, just be sure if you are in there that these are angled upward and not flat. Insufficient spring tension against the motor bushings from these retainers can cause a rattling type of vibration in the E50 motor.

I have not been taking in any TD124 work involving motors for quite a while now due to this observation, and am still not taking any in. I know 100% that what I am observing is correct. I became aware of it while experimenting with different bronze alloys for my Garrard 301 / 401 main bearing.

I now have a process that is giving good results, and will be sharing this method for resizing the original bushings at some point in the near future for people who rebuild these decks. For professional rebuilders, the tooling is not that expensive, but will require care in setting it up, and also some time with learning.

This is just a 'heads up' for TD124 owners and those considering becoming a TD124 owner."

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Yikes, that’s bad. I ran the Audio Silente sintered bushings for a while after vacuum-loading them with oil, but I never felt they were as free-running as my originals so I stuck those back in. Mine seem in good condition and my motor runs quietly. No harm done in my case.

To be honest the one thing I’ve learned about TD-124 restoration is Thorens knew *exactly* what they were doing, and the after-market businesses are best avoided unless you have no choice, i.e. a part is missing or broken. I’ve much respect for Audio Silente unlike many of the boutique suppliers, but even so i do feel the bushings are tighter than they should be.

PS Same story with the ceramic ball replacement for Garrard bearings, they destroy the main bearing. Garrard also knew what they were doing!
 
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I chose not to change the bushings, all parts bar the bottom nylon plate were soaked overnight in acetone. Once cleaned and rinsed off they were soaked for 3 days in the correct Mobil DTE25 oil.
Incidently I bought a litre of this oil so if anyone wants small quantities I'm sure I can help for a very reasonable sum.
 
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I really recommend vacuum-loading the bushings with oil. You can do it with a plastic syringe. Pull the plunger out, drop the bushings in, completely cover them in oil, replace the plunger and get the air out so it looks like the picture above. That done stick your thumb over the hole where the needle would go to seal it, and pull the plunger down. The bearings start fizzing violently like a carbonated drink. Just keep going, expelling air from the syringe and recreating the vacuum until no more bubbles. You’ll be amazed how much air comes out. I am pretty certain this is why I haven’t had an issue with third party bushings. Mine were fully loaded. Even so I’d only use originals now even if a little slack. I’ll take a tiny bit of largely irrelevant noise over having to go rotor shopping anytime! My 124 is done now, I’ll just be adding oil from this point.
 
I'm certain that aftermarket motor bushes are not all of equal quality. We need to know the supplier of the bushings which allegedly caused the spindle damage in that photo.

On the Audio Silente website Simone claims to have gone to great lengths to source proper pressed sintered bushes made in the same way as the Thorens originals.

I think we need to careful here not to tar all suppliers with the same brush until we know specifics.

I'm running AS motor bushes and I'm sufficiently curious to strip down my motor and examine it. Hopefully I'll get a chance over the weekend and I will report back when I've done it.

On the subject of ceramic bearings, it's worth saying that the problem Tony mentions with the 'ceramic bearings' in Garrard decks is totally unrelated to the use of a ceramic ball in place of a steel ball on the TD124 spindle.
 
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