Thorens 124 Belt

[Robert J]

I have been using the Hanze HiFi belts on my Thorens 124 for the last year or so. Absolutely the quietest belt I have ever found for the 124.

That said, I have had a small issue with them. With the first belt, after a few months, it started to make a lot of noise. I'd clean it (and the pulley surfaces) and it would quiet down again, only to make noise again after a little while. Rinse. Repeat.

I bought another one and had the same issue. Dead quiet operation for a few months and then noise.

Any thoughts/experiences from others on what might be happening?

 

[Tony L]

That is about my experience too. The belt is the one weak link in any TD-124 restoration IMO as no one is making one the right length for the 50Hz pulley. The Hanze belt is the best of a bad bunch IMO, if it was a cm longer it would be perfect. I am convinced the difference between the 50 and 60Hz pulley is so great that no one belt can be right for both, yet everyone tries to produce just that. It is unclear whether there were originally more than one belt as different part numbers do appear to exist, so there may have been.

I’ve had the Hanze belt on for about a year and a half now, every now and again I have to give it a dust to quieten it down, but I’m hoping it will eventually stretch sufficiently that it stabilises. I’m convinced the loosest belt that will start the deck without slipping is the right belt. I tried many of various lengths from www.turntablebasics.com but they didn’t have anything of the right thckness. I learnt enough to know that a longer looser belt runs way, way quieter. I am absolutely convinced of this.

 

[Robert J]

That is about my experience too. The belt is the one weak link in any TD-124 restoration IMO as no one is making one the right length for the 50Hz pulley. The Hanze belt is the best of a bad bunch IMO, if it was a cm longer it would be perfect. I am convinced the difference between the 50 and 60Hz pulley is so great that no one belt can be right for both, yet everyone tries to produce just that. It is unclear whether there were originally more than one belt as different part numbers do appear to exist, so there may have been.

I’ve had the Hanze belt on for about a year and a half now, every now and again I have to give it a dust to quieten it down, but I’m hoping it will eventually stretch sufficiently that it stabilises. I’m convinced the loosest belt that will start the deck without slipping is the right belt. I tried many of various lengths from www.turntablebasics.com but they didn’t have anything of the right thckness. I learnt enough to know that a longer looser belt runs way, way quieter. I am absolutely convinced of this.

Thanks, Tony. I'm glad to hear your experience has been similar. Funny enough though, I'm in Canada and have the 60Hz pulley. So, in theory, the belt should work a bit better on mine, but I seem to be having this issue. It seems like any dust/debris the belt picks up is almost immediately transmitted into noise. Such a shame as it's annoying to have to lift the lid every once in a while to clean everything down, and the deck is otherwise such a treat.

 

[Tony L]

Yes, the tiniest amount of belt-shed translates to a surprising amount of noise. It goes without saying the pulley and step-pulley need to be clean to a NASA clean-room standard. Mine are polished-up like mirrors and this does help a lot. I used an electric drill as a makeshift lathe and spun the running surface against some Brasso wadding until it was flawless (the pulley can be bolted to an appropriately sized drill bit and I protected the shaft of the step pulley with a couple of pieces of electrical heatshrink and gently mounted it into the chuck with no issue - I actually have three step-pulleys so I was ok taking a risk, but I did no damage whatsoever).

 

[user510]

I've experienced the belt shedding described in the op while using oemThorens logo belts. As the term implies belt shedding results in the belt leaving small bits of itself on the pulley surfaces. Both the drive and driven pulleys.
I've tried belts from Schopper which are made from a different belt material. The Schopper belt duplicates the dimensions (thickness and width) of the thorens original belt. In use, initially the Schopper belt seems a tad tight going over the 60hz pulley but does seem to stretch a bit after a couple of weeks. And then afterward it runs quieter and as far as I can tell does not exhibit any shedding tendencies.

There was an ebay seller based in Florida that was selling belts for the TD124 at very affordable prices. Something like three belts for ten bucks or thereabouts. I bought a trio of those. The Florida belts were also a tad tight over the 60hz pulley but stretched fairly soon and ran quiet thereafter. No shedding there either.

I've no doubt that experimenting with different belt lengths from a vender like TurntableBasics can result in a good fit. Unlike the belt driven suspended subchassis turntables from Thorens like the TD150 and TD16x models, the TD124 isn't nearly as sensitive to belt tension. And the variable pitch control on the Td124 can make up for any speed differences we might see from using belts of different cross sectional thickness.

Now, after about ten years of experimenting with the TD124, I'm a lot more relaxed about its apparent tendencies and ideosyncracies. Put your ear over an operating TD124 just above the stepped pulley and there is a bit of airborne noise to be heard. And.... there were three different designs of the stepped pulley axle. In my observation the first two design runs quieter than the last which is seen on the mkII. However that is just airborne noise and does not translate into noise heard from the record groove and through the speakers. No big deal. Playing with different belts is like that until you get an accumulation of belt shed on the pulley surfaces. Belt shed can ruin the performance of the deck, although it is easily remedied by a regular regimen of cleaning the pulley surfaces.

No big deal, unless it bugs you. If it does, there is always Garrard or Lenco. Those don't have belts.;-)

-Steve

 

[Tony L]

FWIW the Schopper belt is the noisiest in my considerable collection! It actually sent me down a very long and arguably unnecessary rebuild path as I assumed the awful noise it made couldn’t possibly be it as they were very expensive and apparently “knew what they were doing”. I’ve since learnt to second-guess anything but my own direct experience when it comes to this deck (and most other things in audio to be honest). My 124 is in a lightweight plinth so will never be as quiet as one in a high-mass plinth, but it behaves itself rather well these days and I hope the Hanze belt stabilises/stretches over the next few years and goes even longer without needing a dust. Either that or someone actually produces a nice longer 50Hz-only belt. I’m confident it is the only weak link in the rebuild now, everything else is working exactly as it should.

PS I’m also sure the Mk II step pulley design is the noisiest. I had a Mk I for a while and moved it on as cosmetically it wasn’t anything like as nice as my (mint) Mk II but it ran so quietly by comparison!

 

[user510]

My experience with the mkII, and one 'late first version' player, caused me to take note of some of the differences in build between those and the earlier first versions. Once I had the parts off the chassis and layed out on a table top in front of me I took notice of the differences in plating of the steel parts. The first version (mk1) had its metal work zinc plated. The later iterations of the first version and then the mkII had the steel parts chrome plated. In one particular project I worked on it was apparent that the deck had been stored in a humid environment and the chrome plating did not prevent the ingress of some serious rusty corrosion. It is my opinion that the zinc plating is a far better seal against corrosion and preferred.

On the later version I did appreciate the design of the on/off switch as being an improvement over the earlier version of same. Although either can receive service, the late version just seems so much easier to give maintenance to.

With regard to belts I think we can all try different belts and choose among them. At least there are choices to be made. What counts is the noise floor heard through the speakers.

A case can be made that noise at the stepped pulley can be increased or decreased simply by the gap distance between the magnet and the outer rim of the pulley. And also noise increases as you adjust the pitch control causing the eddy current braking to increase. And this is more noticeable with the later stepped pulley design than with the first version. But this is just airborne noise.

Once the TD124 is fully sorted there is yet one more component that requires sorting. And that would be its owner. ;-)

-Steve

 

[Tony L]

One of my issues is I am in a very high voltage area so need the eddy-brake pretty much full on! I also have a neat little external box that drops the mains voltage down to about 225V so can run with a lot less brake if I choose to. Definitely less prone to noise that way.