The magic of small speakers

[matt j]

My 1st speakers were a pair of tiny Technics - they were rubbish but all I could afford. Next were a 2nd hand pair of Leak 2030s, hardly tiny. 3rd pair were Celestion SL6s that stayed for around 25yrs. They were fairly small & had a great sound if no thunderous bass.
Next came a pair of slim Totem Arros - fabulous imaging & pretty even-handed but still not enough bass from these lovely floor-standers.
Current speakers are Quadral CS8s. Bass at last from dual woofers & IMO, a bargain for £1750. They image well, have beautiful treble & a seamless sound.
Good small speakers certainly have some great qualities such a imaging but are too compromised in design. They are perfect when space is a premium but every pair I've ever heard are hardly full range & getting half decent bass usually comes at the price of poor low-end flatness or deliberate mid-bass lift to compensate. Every small(ish) speaker I've owned have not been easy to drive so needed very good amplification. None went terribly loud - not that that bothered me too much.
Small speakers are great for cost saving & not taking up too much space. I personally don't get the point of spending huge amounts on them. Another variable with small speakers is partnering them with decent stands. However, I'd sooner own great-looking, well-made small speakers over cheap, poorly finished large ones any day. I stopped kidding myself that looks aren't important years ago - some large speakers are just butt-ugly.

I'm the opposite, I don't tend to see the point of a typical 2.5/3 way ported floor stander, too many drawbacks to make worth bothering with.

I'd either go with a very good small speaker or something like a Tannoy or big horn, all the guff in between just seems to be furniture/style over substance.

 

[Snufkin]

PS If there is any rubbing or squeeking in a driver try unscrewing them and rotating them 180 degrees, it may be a small amount of 'cone sag' where over time a driver settles due to gravity and the coil ends up slightly rubbing in the magnet gap. It is good practice with vintage speakers regardless to be honest as it can prevent future issues.

I was pondering that when I fished the offending drive unit out to check its serial numbers etc. Perhaps I will rotate both of the meaty 5" drivers to hopefully extend their life. What is interesting about these little speakers is that I have yet to try driving them with a powerful amplifier. The A&R A60 is lovely amp but I suspect these speakers might benefit from a more substantial amp.

 

[Tony L]

I'm the opposite, I don't tend to see the point of a typical 2.5/3 way ported floor stander, too many drawbacks to make worth bothering with.

I'd either go with a very good small speaker or something like a Tannoy or big horn, all the guff in between just seems to be furniture/style over substance.

I'm exactly the same. Very big or very small, the stuff in between is too compromised for me, i.e. doesn't work as well in the nearfield as the little 'uns and can't fill a room like the big 'uns.

PS Since moving my JC Verdier tube preamp upstairs into the Stereo 20/JR149 system they are sounding massive, almost to the point of comedy! Put a curtain in front and no one would believe this was a small speaker system. It really is astonishing what can come out of a little sealed box as long as you don't want high volume (which I don't).

 

[matt j]

Same here RE: volume levels. Bass I can take or leave it, I'd rather do without it and have an excellent small speaker if it means living with a compromised ported floorstander chuffing away.

I'm going to have a listen to some Tablette 10s on saturday with full intention of buying them if they're as good as I've read/heard.

 

[busb]

I'm the opposite, I don't tend to see the point of a typical 2.5/3 way ported floor stander, too many drawbacks to make worth bothering with.

I'd either go with a very good small speaker or something like a Tannoy or big horn, all the guff in between just seems to be furniture/style over substance.

I don't entirely disagree with you. Apart from the Leaks, all the speakers I've owned up until now have been 2 way with fairly simple x-overs so going with the large(ish) 3.5 way Quadrals was a break. All I can add is that IMO, they are breathtakingly good. The ribbon tweeter gives a really refined & fabulously detailed top-end & the SQ is so even-handed. Sometimes, against odds a speaker defies the trend for the design. The bass is not that obvious most of the time but does underpin all sorts of music without male speech sounding undully thickened. I do hate fat bass.
I was hoping to hear the Quad Z3s at the Bristol show out of curiosity due to being a very similar design but the they only had one for show. I'd invite you to listen to the Quadrals but they won't be easy to find.

 

[EIffel]

I am also of the very small of very big school (everything being relative).

Some speakers such as my Totem Mani-2s are at the upper end of small (16.5" (420mm) H by 8.5" (212mm) W by 12" (305mm) yet have decent bass (29Hz-20kHz ±3dB according to the manufacturer). The trade-off is that, to get good bass with them one needs a beefy amplifier and position in the room is critical (which means they stick like a sore thumb ;-) ). Price is also on the high side in the UK, especially with a good stand.

Conversely, JBLs 4343 are fridge sized, but can go against the wall!

 

[Tony L]

I'm going to have a listen to some Tablette 10s on saturday with full intention of buying them if they're as good as I've read/heard.

Report back, there is a thread somewhere. I have a feeling they will be superb. The hole in the back is the only thing I've had any doubts about with little ProAcs! I have a feeling it is Tyler's first sealed speaker, though I may be wrong on that. He certainly knows how to make a great little speaker so they could well be a real winner. Very reasonably priced too given a pair of Falcon LS3/5As is well north of £2k now (I so wish I'd snagged a pair at the introductory £1250 or whatever it was!).

 

[Jonathan]

Some speakers such as my Totem Mani-2s are at the upper end of small (16.5" (420mm) H by 8.5" (212mm) W by 12" (305mm) yet have decent bass (29Hz-20kHz ±3dB according to the manufacturer). The trade-off is that, to get good bass with them one needs a beefy amplifier and position in the room is critical (which means they stick like a sore thumb ;-) ). Price is also on the high side in the UK, especially with a good stand.

Conversely, JBLs 4343 are fridge sized, but can go against the wall!

hmmm weird... i thought it was 'the nature of the beast' that isobariks go against a wall - not so in the case of the totems i guess? do they have rear ports or something? I'm equally surprised that JBLs would work well against a wall... i figured if there were any speaker you'd want way from the boundary it'd be those...

 

[RogerJW]

Agreed very much - have had some quite large floor-standing speakers which can be very satisfying, (ATC, Dynaudio, etc.) but have come more and more to appreciate small ones - currently use Harbeth P3esr'swhich are son non-fatiguing and focused, and a delight at low volume - especially with Croft amps - and had AVI Neutron 1v's in second system which are also brillaint in a different way for their size - great soundstage and pinpiont focus.

 

[matt j]

Report back, there is a thread somewhere. I have a feeling they will be superb. The hole in the back is the only thing I've had any doubts about with little ProAcs! I have a feeling it is Tyler's first sealed speaker, though I may be wrong on that. He certainly knows how to make a great little speaker so they could well be a real winner. Very reasonably priced too given a pair of Falcon LS3/5As is well north of £2k now (I so wish I'd snagged a pair at the introductory £1250 or whatever it was!).

You don't fancy building one of their kits instead? £500 ish doesn't seem too bad at all if you aren't particularly bothered about a furniture grade cabinet.

 

[Tony L]

Not really as there is no investment potential there. I'd rather like to have a pair of 5/As knocking about increasing in value and able to be brought out for a play now and again, but to be honest I'm so happy with the 149s there is no real point.

 

[James]

I'm the opposite, I don't tend to see the point of a typical 2.5/3 way ported floor stander, too many drawbacks to make worth bothering with.

Most floor-standers are cheaply built, and if they are ported, well that makes them rather pointless too.

I'd either go with a very good small speaker or something like a Tannoy or big horn, all the guff in between just seems to be furniture/style over substance.

Horns are all very well if you can ignore their coloration.

The bottom line is, if you want convincing full range FR, you aren't going to get it with a pair of small boxes, passive or active.

 

[wylton]

I really like good small speakers, ideally listened to in the nearfield.

Yes, I have a pair of MK1 Kans in my upstairs office and they are perfect for this application. If you sit close enough, especially for late night listening, it is like wearing a giant pair of headphones; a great effect when you're listening to trippy electronica!

 

[Purité Audio]

That may have been true once but not now, and horns don't have to be coloured.
Keith

 

[WillietheSquid]

So civilized ... like small speakers.

My first pair of 'small speakers' was the JR-149. That was 1977, driven by a GAS Son of Ampzilla. The room was the right size and I loved that system. That small speaker had very convincing bass output in a proper room with the right amp. Best imagers I ever heard. Got me through law school.

Unfortunately, I loaned them out ... they were dropped / destroyed.

A few years later I ended up with Spendor 15 ohm LS3/5as ... and kept that pair of loudspeakers longer than any other audio gear that I have owned ... over 23 years I believe. Their replacements were Spendor 3/5s. And a few years later, their replacements were Spendor 3/5Rs.

I love the Spendor 3/5R.

For myself, I came to understand that owning a pair of small loudspeakers was a wonderful luxury in a second system ... but could never satisfy long term on their own. I was fortunate to live in residences where I could have a near 'full range' system on one floor and have the Spendors on a different floor.

After my separation / divorce in 2009, I lived with only the Spendor 3/5R for almost 6 months ... before deciding they just didn't have enough bass ... and ended up purchasing a pair of Spendor 1/2s ... which were much more musically satisfying.

This is my opinion only ... don't know if true or accurate reason ... but I believe that IM distortion becomes a irritation to me when I play small speakers at median levels of 85 db plus where peaks might go into the 90 db plus. I consider that 'high output' for home listening ... but in order to get scale and some bass out of small speakers, that is my tendency. At lower output levels, no problem. It might be amp clipping ... but my long term experience causes me to believe it's more likely speaker / driver limitations.

WTS

 

[EIffel]

hmmm weird... i thought it was 'the nature of the beast' that isobariks go against a wall - not so in the case of the totems i guess? do they have rear ports or something? I'm equally surprised that JBLs would work well against a wall... i figured if there were any speaker you'd want way from the boundary it'd be those...

Mani-2s are, indeed, rear ported

 

[Tony L]

This is my opinion only ... don't know if true or accurate reason ... but I believe that IM distortion becomes a irritation to me when I play small speakers at median levels of 85 db plus where peaks might go into the 90 db plus. I consider that 'high output' for home listening ... but in order to get scale and some bass out of small speakers, that is my tendency. At lower output levels, no problem. It might be amp clipping ... but my long term experience causes me to believe it's more likely speaker / driver limitations.

I agree. I like small speakers close up; I sit within 1 meter of my 149s and using the Faber Acoustical Sound Meter app on my iPhone, which gives very similar readings to a RadioShack analogue meter I also have, but is far more able to read peaks. I listen at an average of about 78db which puts peaks on a seriously good CD/SACD at about 90db, which is well within their capability. The way sound works there are some distinct advantages here: sitting at 1m requires a lot less power than the same volume further away, two speakers in a room is worth an extra 3db, being close to a rear wall is also worth 3db, so I doubt I'm ever sticking much more than a couple of Watts up them, certainly my 10 Watt Leak tube amp seems to have plenty of headroom (I initially thought a slight leanness was it running out of power, but since swapping the passive preamp out for a tube pre it seems to have gobs on tap!).

One of my friends is a real small speaker fan, though listens a lot louder and further away than me. He has had a lot of excellent mini-monitors over the years; AE1s, QLNs, ProAcs, PMCs etc etc and his trick is to use a tube preamp and bloody huge solid state power amp. Currently a Musical Fidelity of some description, but he has owned various huge Krells, 500 Watt Brystons etc. It really is astonishing what something like an AE1 or ProAc 1SC can get up to when there is a really bottomless power reserve on tap. I just don't want the volume or distance so gonfor different solutions, but this is certainly valid.

 

[windhoek]

You can add Kralk Audio BC-30s to that magical mini speaker list. They're not a million miles away from Kans (no direct comparison done but I've owned and heard several pairs of Kans) and get my toes tapping every time

 

[Cereal Killer]

I'm the opposite, I don't tend to see the point of a typical 2.5/3 way ported floor stander, too many drawbacks to make worth bothering with.

I'd either go with a very good small speaker or something like a Tannoy or big horn, all the guff in between just seems to be furniture/style over substance.

Yerp. I've never kept anything mid sized for long, always enjoyed standmounts more. My current ones are superb; like R1sc's but more complete.

 

[Space is the Place]

I think the Dali Pico's i got for a friend (and then subsequently a pair for myself) are i perhaps the most enjoyable speaker i've owned. I was thinking about starting a thread about them, but his thread with the world "magic" in the title seems appropriate!