The little changes...

[kabayiri]

A slightly different take on matters.

My sister is a clinical professor of neurology.

A short while back she bought these :-
http://www.icsimpulse.com/

Rather cool glasses, but alas at $17,000 not a casual purchase.

I helped her crunch some data, most of which I didn't understand in truth.

It does seem clear however, that even events in our past (such as trauma) affect the way we perceive things via auditory and visual senses.

The whole research area into sensory perception is still at an early stage - it seems we have much to learn. It can't just be boiled down to "it's all 1s and 0s so it must be the same".

 

[Julf]

The whole research area into sensory perception is still at an early stage - it seems we have much to learn. It can't just be boiled down to "it's all 1s and 0s so it must be the same".

Sensory perception starts when the sound waves reach your ears. Up until the speaker it is electrical engineering and information theory, between the speaker and your ear it is acoustics.

 

[Harry1212]

Try an A/B/C/X test.

Sober/glass of red/spliff . . .

Bollox to changing cables.

go "Student Mode" for an evening & stop being so bloody neurotic.

Top Tip from Tonbridge.



xx

 

[Harry1212]

Anyone?

 

[dif]

I need to change my usb a to b cable from 1.8m - 4.8m, tried stretching it, would only go to 2.1m :-( anyone recommend a reasonably priced 4.8?

 

[awkwardbydesign]

If everybody else hears a difference, but I don't, then I know something is wrong with my hearing.

Not necessarily; don't discount masking - "I used to work in a small woodworking factory where the shopfloor phone made low tone "meep, meep" noise; I was the only one who couldn't hear it. But when I wore earplugs that reduced the high frequencies it was no problem. My HF sensitivity had drowned out the lower frequencies!" My own quote.
Without measuring your and their hearing you are simply making unsupported assumptions. Hence the thread I started asking for personal experiences.
And this is a curious assumption - "when there has been real differences, it is mostly the people who are better trained at critical listening who can pick out the differences,"
Why do they have to be better trained? And by whom? Many of us here are "self trained" to hear little details (my wife's complaint about me), and that definitely affects my listening choices, whether I want it to or not. It looks like you will only accept evidence if it's wrapped in a study or from "professionals". This is a forum for enthusiasts and amateurs, and surprisingly, I believe that's who discovered many scientific principles.

 

[Julf]

Not necessarily; don't discount masking - "I used to work in a small woodworking factory where the shopfloor phone made low tone "meep, meep" noise; I was the only one who couldn't hear it. But when I wore earplugs that reduced the high frequencies it was no problem. My HF sensitivity had drowned out the lower frequencies!" My own quote.

I agree masking is important - and there have been documented cases of people with hearing defects being able to pick out even high-bitrate mp3 files from uncompressed ones very easily, because their hearing defect prevented the masking that mp3 relies on from working.

And this is a curious assumption - "when there has been real differences, it is mostly the people who are better trained at critical listening who can pick out the differences,"
Why do they have to be better trained? And by whom? Many of us here are "self trained" to hear little details (my wife's complaint about me), and that definitely affects my listening choices, whether I want it to or not.

I think a bunch of people here on pfm have emphasized that they are much more able to pick out small differences after they have learned to listen for the right things. That view is supported by professional studies.

The training doesn't need to be "professional training". There are good ways to train online - one good one is the Philips Golden Ears Challenge.

It looks like you will only accept evidence if it's wrapped in a study or from "professionals". This is a forum for enthusiasts and amateurs, and surprisingly, I believe that's who discovered many scientific principles.

I give more credibility to properly peer-reviewed evidence. There is nothing wrong by experiments done by enthusiasts and amateurs, but the credibility of the results still depends on the adherence to scientific protocols.

All that of course only applies to general claims. Something presented as a personal, subjective opinion is exactly that - a personal, subjective opinion. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

I agree masking is important - and there have been documented cases of people with hearing defects being able to pick out even high-bitrate mp3 files from uncompressed ones very easily, because their hearing defect prevented the masking that mp3 relies on from working.

My point was; don't assume that not hearing something is definitely due to faulty hearing. There could be other reasons. But without information it is all speculation.
The rest of your post I don't disagree with.

 

[Julf]

My point was; don't assume that not hearing something is definitely due to faulty hearing. There could be other reasons. But without information it is all speculation.

Sure - Our hearing is not just ears, but the combination of ear and brain. The brain both filters away and fills in a lot.

 

[Harry1212]

penny's dropped . . .

 

[awkwardbydesign]

penny's dropped . . .

Are you actually on the same thread?

 

[dif]

Agree Julf, at least an explanation for things we dont quite understand.....

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

The interesting thing for me is that, as I get older, my hearing is probably less sensitive to high frequencies, yet my music doesn't sound any different to me.

That's because your brain knows what it should sound like and fills in the gaps - a form of psychoacoustics, if you like.

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I meant to pick up on this.

What mechanism is happening, then, if I make a change to the system and hear some new aspect of the music which I hadn't previously appreciated? It might be, for example, that I suddenly notice that there are two backing singers, not just one, or things like that.

If I didn't 'know' that before, how can I detect it now?

 

[Julf]

If I didn't 'know' that before, how can I detect it now?

You listen more attentively?

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread, but I meant to pick up on this.

What mechanism is happening, then, if I make a change to the system and hear some new aspect of the music which I hadn't previously appreciated? It might be, for example, that I suddenly notice that there are two backing singers, not just one, or things like that.

If I didn't 'know' that before, how can I detect it now?

My hearing is noticeably and measurably different in each ear. It doesn't stop me placing sounds reliably (my directional hearing has always been good; if I drop something I can hear where it has rolled to, for example). My wife has never had this ability. I believe the brain generally compensates for hearing deficiencies, within reason, and so picking up on small differences in sound can continue until there are gross deficiencies. Whether there is an element of skill or learning to listen involved is another question, IMO.

 

[dif]

A word in your ear, wax?
Couple of drops of olive oil in each ear for a week was prescribed to melt wax deposits prior to a visit to a nurse who hosed each ear with warm water. Fairly painless and improved hearing generally and equalised hearing where previously I was hearing better from the left ear.
HIFI sounded wonderful, saved an upgrade

 

[dif]

Apologies to the squeemish....

 

[Mike Reed]

What mechanism is happening, then, if I make a change to the system and hear some new aspect of the music which I hadn't previously appreciated? It might be, for example, that I suddenly notice that there are two backing singers, not just one, or things like that.

If I didn't 'know' that before, how can I detect it now?

Simple, surely; you're picking up on the extra transparency/detail retrieval or transference enabled by whatever you've changed.

A recent I/C purchase found me hearing background voices and other nuances which I didn't know were on the CD. Quite refreshing really, and I don't think it's due to a different frequency bias of the I/C. Hifi being the black art it is, though, it's possible, but I felt justified in buying it !

 

[dweezil]

Try an A/B/C/X test.

Sober/glass of red/spliff . . .

Bollox to changing cables.

go "Student Mode" for an evening & stop being so bloody neurotic.

Top Tip from Tonbridge.



xx

Lived there for a while, spliff mode / cheap Phillips stack / Floyd; never been bettered.

 

[paskinn]

There's a key philosophical point lurking here.......when someone says their hearing is less good these days, but the music sounds the same, what do they mean? The comparison they have to make is between what they hear now, and what they remember...but as they can never check what they heard before, because their hearing has deteriorated, it is unverifiable, and meaningless in practice.
Reminds me of many of the topics we explore on pfm. It might be described as obsessed with notions of 'the truth' . Which is why everything becomes circular and repetitive. If the best philosophers cannot settle these issues, a bunch of guys on an audio forum won't make any progress.