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The Insanely high cost of tech failures in new cars

Caliente

Caliente

pfm Member
Ok for the subject, I simply used the subject line from the video:

Anyhow best to skip to 8mins and watch from there - I'm no petrol head and indeed this is no doubt old news for many on here, but after looking at a number of video reviews for the Mk8 Golf this popped up and has stopped me in my tracks - I am now sorely tempted to try and keep my Peugeot 308 running even though it is time to change the wet timing belt which is apparently notoriously difficult to do properly and is also quite expensive.

Any thoughts on this nightmare scenario highlighted in the video - and any thoughts on the lower-powered Mk 8 Golf?
 
We've certainly had more problems on diesels since all the emission controls came in, even something like an injector change.

Used to be able to do a six cylinder engine new injectors plus valve service in the yard for about £50; now it's back to the main dealer, £300 per injector plus a few hours on the laptop recalibrating. All this in the name of a little bit of fuel economy and reduced oxides of N in the exhaust.
 
Caliente said:
Ok for the subject, I simply used the subject line from the video:

Anyhow best to skip to 8mins and watch from there - I'm no petrol head and indeed this is no doubt old news for many on here, but after looking at a number of video reviews for the Mk8 Golf this popped up and has stopped me in my tracks - I am now sorely tempted to try and keep my Peugeot 308 running even though it is time to change the wet timing belt which is apparently notoriously difficult to do properly and is also quite expensive.

Any thoughts on this nightmare scenario highlighted in the video - and any thoughts on the lower-powered Mk 8 Golf?
Click to expand...
Yes and no. Popular modules are repaired by specialists. I remember 10+ years ago I had a fault on a Vectra, "new ECU" said the dealer. £1200. The car's dead. I got an indy to remove it (1 hour labour) send it to an indy repairer, and have them diagnose the fault (£50), repair as necessary (varies, but typically under £100), return postage, refit. It was a £200 repair. In point of fact it was less, because it was OK and all it was was a dicky connector. Removal and refit, all done. I'm sure that for many of the future problems a similar observation will apply. Yes, new stuff is tricky, but I remember when the Vauxhall Insignia was unrepairable because you couldn't get any diagnosis outside the dealers. Not now.
 
Since cars are going to be electric pretty soon, the question is what the repair situation is like for EVs. I don't know cars - maybe someone who does could comment on whether an EV is better, worse or the same for aftermarket problems. I do note that they do occasionally burst into flames and burn out, which looks like more than a trip to your friendly local dealer....
 
les24preludes said:
Since cars are going to be electric pretty soon, the question is what the repair situation is like for EVs. I don't know cars - maybe someone who does could comment on whether an EV is better, worse or the same for aftermarket problems. I do note that they do occasionally burst into flames and burn out, which looks like more than a trip to your friendly local dealer....
Click to expand...
In time (i.e. when manufacturers get better and specialists and the likes become established) I fully expect electric cars to be far easier to repair and more reliable than diesel and petrol vehicles as they are inherently much simpler. However, like all new technologies there will be a period where this is likely to be a rocky road... although I think the time is not that far off and my next car (in 3/4 years time) will be electric.
 
les24preludes said:
Since cars are going to be electric pretty soon, the question is what the repair situation is like for EVs. I don't know cars - maybe someone who does could comment on whether an EV is better, worse or the same for aftermarket problems. I do note that they do occasionally burst into flames and burn out, which looks like more than a trip to your friendly local dealer....
Click to expand...
In a recent report hybrids were most likely to catch fire, followed by ICE, with EVs least likely. I think the problem with EVs is the difficulty extinguishing them.

Beyond drive train type some manufacturers seem to have more problems than others:
normantaylor.com

Which Cars Catch Fire the Most? | Norman Taylor & Associates

Car fires are scary and sometimes unavoidable. Here are some recent cars recalled for fire risks and what to do if you suffered a car fire.
normantaylor.com normantaylor.com

It certainly makes me thing twice about parking the car in the garage - but vehicle fires are so rare that it wouldn't make much difference to my purchasing decision. I'm more interested in fuel economy and crash test rating, since I'm much more likely to be injured or killed in a crash than for my car to spontaneously combust.
 
tiggers said:
In time (i.e. when manufacturers get better and specialists and the likes become established) I fully expect electric cars to be far easier to repair and more reliable than diesel and petrol vehicles as they are inherently much simpler. However, like all new technologies there will be a period where this is likely to be a rocky road... although I think the time is not that far off and my next car (in 3/4 years time) will be electric.
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^this. When sorted, electric is better. I had a petrol mower, it wore out. A mate gave me an old one. It was OK but now needs a service. I found an old electric one, bought and used 20 years ago, left in the loft for a decade plus. Never serviced. Plugged it in, off we go. Maintenance this wintef? NOne. This spring? Plug it in, press go.
 
i had the batteries charging module on my Jaguar sportbreak stop charging. Quote for a new module £4200-4500. It turned out there was water shorting it out. A grommet was not in properly. Fortunately the garage tried drying it out first and that has fixed the issue. I was told I couldn’t just buy a secondhand one as they are linked to the car chassis no.
 
Rodrat said:
I had the batteries charging module on my Jaguar sportbreak stop charging. Quote for a new module £4200-4500. It turned out there was water shorting it out. A grommet was not in properly. Fortunately the garage tried drying it out first and that has fixed the issue. I was told I couldn’t just buy a secondhand one as they are linked to the car chassis no.
Click to expand...


I thought there was a growing initiative, at least in the EU, to ensure that electro/mechanical devices could be repaired?

This also sounds like some kind of monopoly situation which forces owners to use same brand parts?

www.globalpolicywatch.com

European Commission Publishes Directive on the Right of Repair Proposal

On March 22, 2023, the European Commission published a proposal for Directive on common rules promoting the repair of goods (“Proposal”), which would
www.globalpolicywatch.com www.globalpolicywatch.com
 
The evolution of cars over the decades has led to the following:

Cars of the past were far less reliable, but in the main the things that went wrong weren't horredously expensive*
Mordern cars are vastly more reliable, but in the main the things that go wrong are expensive to fix*

*relative to the cost of the car new

So it's a myth to believe cars were cheaper to run in the past (in real terms vs household income), they required more frequent maintenance and more frequent repair. Cars today are at the other end of the spectrum, far lower maintenance and repair frequency, but higher cost for them.

I also have to say: I have noticed that in general people in the US are far more excitable and critical of any car maintenance issue. For some reason they seem to believe that a car should never fail, ever and some of the youtube videos proclaiming "never buy a <insert name/model here> before watching this video" which then go on to list a bunch of trivial minor cosmetic issues or a particular part that fails on a small number of the cars are presented as if it's the end of the world.
 
stevec67 said:
^this. When sorted, electric is better. I had a petrol mower, it wore out. A mate gave me an old one. It was OK but now needs a service. I found an old electric one, bought and used 20 years ago, left in the loft for a decade plus. Never serviced. Plugged it in, off we go. Maintenance this wintef? NOne. This spring? Plug it in, press go.
Click to expand...
The biggest problems I have with cars are sensors, ECUs, digital and electrical stuff.

So that's not going away, is it?
 
I had a VW touareg die on me. £5000 to get it fixed. The garage didn‘t have a clue what it was, so changed ecu after ECU until it started working again..
 
My cousin, who is a mechanic in London, was asked by his dad, many years ago, about getting a diesel car (they were becoming de rigueur at the time). "Nah Dad, they're dirty fings diesels....get a petrol motor". Sage advice.

It remains true today. All that complex whizz-bang shite to make something that is inherently dirty, smokey and manky seem "clean". Best avoided.

I've been looking for a Honda Jazz for my old dear recently, to replace her 2005 model which has been condemned by her mechanic ("It passed this year, don't bring it back next year!"). But the newer ones are full of all sorts of shite (tyre pressure monitors) that would have her phoning me regularly to ask about flashing lights on the dash. As well as a space-ship-ready steering wheel that I know she would find bewildering. Something around 2012 is as new as I dare go.

I remember looking for a fully analogue/mechanical car a few years ago, to avoid techy problems, but they have all rusted and died years ago. Cars in general are manky, smelly, dirty, polluting things. They really ought to be banned or taxed into oblivion. Old tech going nowhere (even the electric ones). Such a waste of the Earth's resources.
 
Just paid £215 for a new Stop/Start battery for the C4.

The OH's 2007 Micra battery was £65 roughly a third of the price.

Stop/Start saves nothing in fuel because it only works when the battery has long charging periods. The battery doesn't charge enough if stop starting in traffic is all it has.

Mustn't grumble though. It's registered before April 2017 so the low emission VED is only £20 annually.
 
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