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The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021

waxkinglyrical said:
Revenge of the nerds, namby pamby legislation part v…

I used to have a love/hate affair with fair Caledonia (being a true patriot) but now utterly detest the politics in the country of my birth, the micro managed ‘home of the brave’

Sickening really.
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Mmmm, sickening.
 
Selective quoting on the original post. Follow the link and read the whole paragraph, and you see that the characteristics listed are things that aggravate an offence.

Commentary on those things alone is not illegal, or an offence. Insults on those grounds are also not an offence until they meet the threshold for existing harassment law, at which point you get charged with some form of harrassment (an offence that's been there for decades), with the hate speech as an aggravating factor.

Objection to these laws is confected by people who make money or gain political power from stoking up hatred and they don't want their most useful tactic criminalised.

It's nearly impossible to "accidentally" fall under the conditions of this bill in your day-to-day life, unless you're already doing things that are skating on the edge of existing offences against the person legislation.
 
Strep back from the rhetoric and emotion for a minute.

Whatever is being attempted - however well-meaning - it's important that we don't make bad laws to try to fix the issues. It sounds to me like this may well be a badly-written law (however well-intended) where the scope and reach is to broad and vaguely-defined.

I take it Frankie Boyle's going to have to retire now? Most of his routines would see him without laptop or mobile phone on a permanent basis!
 
KrisW said:
Selective quoting on the original post. Follow the link and read the whole paragraph, and you see that the characteristics listed are things that aggravate an offence.

Commentary on those things alone is not illegal, or an offence. Insults on those grounds are also not an offence until they meet the threshold for existing harassment law, at which point you get charged with some form of harrassment (an offence that's been there for decades), with the hate speech as an aggravating factor.

Objection to these laws is confected by people who make money or gain political power from stoking up hatred and they don't want their most useful tactic criminalised.

It's nearly impossible to "accidentally" fall under the conditions of this bill in your day-to-day life, unless you're already doing things that are skating on the edge of existing offences against the person legislation.
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Fortunately the threshhold for harassment is very low.

Funk said:
Strep back from the rhetoric and emotion for a minute.

Whatever is being attempted - however well-meaning - it's important that we don't make bad laws to try to fix the issues. It sounds to me like this may well be a badly-written law (however well-intended) where the scope and reach is to broad and vaguely-defined.

I take it Frankie Boyle's going to have to retire now? Most of his routines would see him without laptop or mobile phone on a permanent basis!
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As has already been noted in this thread this simply brings Scotland into line with the law elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with the legislation other than the active discouragement to use it by the people who should be enforcing it such as the police.
 
Funk said:
Strep back from the rhetoric and emotion for a minute.

Whatever is being attempted - however well-meaning - it's important that we don't make bad laws to try to fix the issues. It sounds to me like this may well be a badly-written law (however well-intended) where the scope and reach is to broad and vaguely-defined.

I take it Frankie Boyle's going to have to retire now? Most of his routines would see him without laptop or mobile phone on a permanent basis!
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No, and I wonder how much of his comedy you've actually seen if you think that.

Basically, this law is there to make the act of calling someone a "papist faggot" while kicking their head in a worse offence than simply kicking their head in. I know, ****ing Nanny State..
 
KrisW said:
Selective quoting on the original post. Follow the link and read the whole paragraph, and you see that the characteristics listed are things that aggravate an offence.

Commentary on those things alone is not illegal, or an offence. Insults on those grounds are also not an offence until they meet the threshold for existing harassment law, at which point you get charged with some form of harrassment (an offence that's been there for decades), with the hate speech as an aggravating factor.

Objection to these laws is confected by people who make money or gain political power from stoking up hatred and they don't want their most useful tactic criminalised.

It's nearly impossible to "accidentally" fall under the conditions of this bill in your day-to-day life, unless you're already doing things that are skating on the edge of existing offences against the person legislation.
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Thank you for pointing this out. The selective way in which this was portrayed in the OP makes it look very much like, either, a troll thread, or, one of those confected outrage threads. Either way, hardly edifying.
 
Ginger said:
The single source bit: surely that means that the court has to accept that the single source provides evidence? It isn’t about anyone, anywhere being able to report it ( anyone, anywhere can report any other offence …) it’s about uncorroborated evidence, isn’t it?
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A single source is just an individual making the report using the online form here: https://www.scotland.police.uk/secureforms/c3/
In all probability the evidence will be a link to some statement on social media which contravenes the Act
Police Scotland then assess the validity of the complaint (actually it's a team of "trained" assessors who will do it on behalf of PS).

Personally, I think it will take quite a few months before anybody knows how this will all pan out.
 
GordonM said:
A single source is just an individual making the report using the online form here: https://www.scotland.police.uk/secureforms/c3/
In all probability the evidence will be a link to some statement on social media which contravenes the Act
Police Scotland then assess the validity of the complaint (actually it's a team of "trained" assessors who will do it on behalf of PS).

Personally, I think it will take quite a few months before anybody knows how this will all pan out.
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Quite. I was referring to your original post in which you said:

''So basically anybody in Scotland can report an offence under the act....when reporting an offence you can do so anonymously, and even on behalf of a third party!''


No different to any other offences then.


The point about a single source of evidence is potentially interesting because it could be a witnesses perception, and would appear not to need corroboration. But that's a matter for a court. I make the assumption that it's been written into this act having been carefully considered. I might assume that it enables evidence of prejudice to be more easily introduced. Is that good or bad? Not sure, but as others have pointed out, this is on top of another offence, and is merely the aggravating part. Looked at in that context, and having regard to types of offending that might be aggravated, and the victims, I'd say it's fair to bring this in and let the courts deal with it.
 
KrisW said:
Selective quoting on the original post. Follow the link and read the whole paragraph, and you see that the characteristics listed are things that aggravate an offence.

Commentary on those things alone is not illegal, or an offence. Insults on those grounds are also not an offence until they meet the threshold for existing harassment law, at which point you get charged with some form of harrassment (an offence that's been there for decades), with the hate speech as an aggravating factor.

Objection to these laws is confected by people who make money or gain political power from stoking up hatred and they don't want their most useful tactic criminalised.

It's nearly impossible to "accidentally" fall under the conditions of this bill in your day-to-day life, unless you're already doing things that are skating on the edge of existing offences against the person legislation.
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I think some are getting their synopsis of the legislation from the ravings of The DM et al. A man can’t speak his mind in his own country anymore
 
Somafunk said:
I’m pleased the ****ing idiots out themselves so obviously, off to the ignore list with you
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Calling someone an “idiot” is offensive, and were I passing a sex-shop in Glasgow I might well report you, anonymously, for hate crime.

”The terms idiot, imbecile, moron, and their derivatives were formerly used as technical descriptors in medical, educational, and regulatory contexts. These uses were broadly rejected by the close of the 20th century and are now considered offensive.”

Merriam Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dic...ecile, moron,and are now considered offensive.
 
daytona600 said:
Next time Trump visits scotland phone lines will be jammed
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Funny you should mention. The small gathering of protesters outside Parliament. You can see the problem.

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GordonM said:
The Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 comes into effect on 1st April 2024.

From the UK Legislation web site: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2021/14/section/1

The characteristics for reporting a hate crime are—

(a) age,

(b) disability,

(c) race, colour, nationality (including citizenship), or ethnic or national origins,

(d) religion or, in the case of a social or cultural group, perceived religious affiliation,

(e) sexual orientation,

(f) transgender identity,

(g) variations in sex characteristics.



It is immaterial whether or not the offender's malice and ill-will is also based (to any extent) on any other factor. Evidence from a single source is sufficient to prove that an offence is aggravated by prejudice.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So basically anybody in Scotland can report an offence under the act.

An offence can be committed verbally (even within a family) or written (on a forum, social media etc.)

When reporting an offence you can do so anonymously, and even on behalf of a third party!

You probably think “What’s the big deal. I don’t live in Scotland,” Well you don’t have to as long as anybody who is in Scotland can read it and is offended under any of the protected characteristics.

You might also think “Pfff it’s just a minor nothing”. Well the whole point is that anybody in Scotland who takes offence can simply report you wherever you live in the UK. The police can then arrest you and confiscate ALL your IT equipment as evidence. Even if you are not charged, it can take months to get you kit back. And it can cost a fortune to hire lawyers. The person making the complaint has to bear no cost whatsoever.

There are good reasons to believe that some individuals will be targeted by this legislation even if nothing comes of any complaint. It’s simply “The process is the punishment”.

Welcome to the SNP’s Kafkaesque Scotland.

For the record, I live in Scotland and support independence but not the SNP.
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How do you feel about the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill that crushes your rights to protest about laws you disagree with?
 
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