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The end for Naim?

A

alexbaxterca

pfm Member
I know this will be controversial, but how much longer has Naim (and a lot of other high end companies) got left in the digital age? And I mean not from an 'out of business' perspective, but just from the cash cow that is their never-ending upgrade ladder.

I used to use an Nait XS integrated.... paired with a Chord Hugo. But hang on, why have I paid money for a pre-section, powered by a £1,000 hi-cap just to control volume when the Hugo can do that? Right, get rid of the XS, replace with a higher rated power amp for the same price and run the Hugo direct. The change was incredible, the music was so much better. And I had money in my pocket.

So let's say that the pre-amp is on the way out (assuming more and more people will only use the one digital source), that means no more 552, 252, 282, 202 sales... no more Supercap and hi cap sales... and no more power lines for all of them. That's half of Naim's business wiped out!!!

Yes they are creating the Muso and the new smaller version... but these are £900.... not £10,000 for a 252 and a supercap!!
 
Hard to say and time will certainly tell the tale. I would think in time things will eventually get pared down a bit in the preamp line etc., but who knows. Just my speculation and others too. I just hope that things will remain profitable for them as well as bring good products to their customers that work well and last as long as things have over the course of many years.
 
Couldn't agree more Tim, certainly not a knock at Naim as I do like their stuff and hope they can keep the British flag flying.
 
I don't think the tide has gone out just yet. There are even some of us who have more than one source "in the digital age".

What power amp do you run your Hugo into?


SJB
 
Seems to me Naim are doing a pretty good job of surviving in a difficult market. Their turnover has nearly tripled in the last four years and the Muso's selling like hot cakes. Doesn't matter that it's cheap, it's the number of units you shift & the profit on each one that's important.

We'll never know the figures on number of products sold, but I do know their uber-expensive Statement kit's done considerably better than anticipated.

This sort of speculation's pretty pointless really but my money's on Naim to continue to flourish.
 
Hi SJB, I know people will always use more than a digital source :) I just thought it was an interesting perspective. I run my Hugo in to a Chord SPM1000B but am currently building a dual mono NCC200.
 
alexbaxterca said:
Couldn't agree more Tim, certainly not a knock at Naim as I do like their stuff and hope they can keep the British flag flying.
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''The British flag flying'' ....isn't it owned by the French company, Focal? Or has someone else bought it all since then? How is it ''British.'' when all the profits go overseas, and all control is overseas.
Same incidentally with firms like Bentley and Rolls Royce, foreign owned companies, where 'Britishness' is a sham, a mere marketing device..
What an awful record for Britain and it's future.....
 
Paskinn, while I get what you are saying, and a lot of this stuff these days is getting old, even here in the US, but I do have to say that as long as Naim can keep most of their products being built in Britain and keep folks working there, I am all for it. Nothing is the same as it once was, some for the better, some not so much. Maybe I am blind, or just hoping, but I still see Naim as British, and I do probably have a good bit of heartfelt pride of ownership of some of their gear.
 
The idea that any reasonably large company nowadays can remain wholly British is really quaint. As Tim points out, the important bit is that their stuff's designed and, apart from the Muso (and presumably the Qb) is made in England, employing an English workforce.
 
Unless they innovate, which is hard with not much budget, I recon 4 to 6 years tops, their stuff was old 20 years ago. I notice even here, in Doddery Oldblokeville, a move away from Linn/Naim et al. They have been running on Bentley for about four years.
 
MVV, I agree and I have no bias either way... I just want the best sounding system. But I do feel that they need to quickly catch up with companies like Chord. Ok they have funky looking equipment, but they are innovators appealing to the up and coming consumers.... and at a high price point (which is naturally good for them).
 
I don't see why this thread singles Naim out, it applies just as much to any other high-end audio company. The issue at present is that the folk interested in real high-end audio outside of the headphone market is shrinking. This does not have to be set in stone as fashions change with the wind. I'm sure something approaching lifesized music in the home will once again become The Thing To Have as not having it is just plain daft IMHO. A waste of a house. Naim have positioned themselves reasonably well IMO what with the neat little sound-bar/streaming all-in-one type things that may get new punters interested, then a full range of kit from the traditional Naim owner's demographic right up to the absurd oligarchs-only Statement range.
 
Surely you don't think the people who inhabit pfm are a very good barometer on how Naim are doing in the market? Their business decisions seem to have been pretty sound so far. If their stuff doesn't sell they'll stop making it, that's what businesses do.
 
A good preamp is still better than any digital one, although the Hugo's is amazing for the money.

Linn stopped making pre-amps some time ago...but still many find that adding a modest second hand preamp improves there DS range.
 
Yeah I agree Tony, wasnt necessarily just Naim (I did say and other high end companies in my post). I guess it was just that's the world I am used to (always owned Naim before) and a close friend has a significant Naim set up. But you are right, it's not just Naim.

And I guess my point isnt so much about hifi being 'dumbed' down... ie. lifestyle systems..... my point is innovation is essential to keep the current hi-end market stable. I thoroughly believe a newer and more efficient approach can be taken in hifi without reverting just to Muso and Qb.
 
Naim gear is beautifully built. This in itself could keep it alive. Why do people buy Patek Phillipe watches, when a Timex does the same job? Simply what's inside.
 
venton said:
Naim gear is beautifully built. This in itself could keep it alive. Why do people buy Patek Phillipe watches, when a Timex does the same job? Simply what's inside.
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My rather opaque 'running on Bentley' comment related to this. Bentley survived on the 'build quality' ticket for a while but the only reason they are still here is because they abandoned that strategy and innovated.
 
alexbaxterca said:
And I guess my point isnt so much about hifi being 'dumbed' down... ie. lifestyle systems..... my point is innovation is essential to keep the current hi-end market stable. I thoroughly believe a newer and more efficient approach can be taken in hifi without reverting just to Muso and Qb.
Click to expand...

As someone who now rarely exits the nice safe world of vintage/classic audio I'd argue there is actually little to innovate beyond the digital/streaming front end as the rest of the chain is tried, tested and works very well. A good amp and speakers from half a century or more ago is still a good amp and speaker today. There is very little on the market now that will touch say a pair of Quad 57s, huge Tannoys, NS1000s etc. Devialet Phantoms are the only thing that have to my mind conceptually broken really new ground, though I don't have enough direct experience to know if they actually do the things I want an amp and speaker to do. On paper at least they are probably the most radical product since the Quad ESL63. Other than that what is new? What can be new? We've been wobbling moving coil drivers around in boxes using electricity since the early part of the 20th century.
 
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