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The controversy of the copper foil cables: potentially the best cables - no one really know about

andriirad

pfm Member
I don't know if these topic has been well known here, but from my previous researches, you will hardly find anything related to it, on any audio forums.
I personally first time heard about it, during the random conversation with one experienced audiophile. He told me that the best interconnect cables he ever listen, were the cables, he made from the Mundorf silver foil. He told me that he have made a several test with top of the league cables, you may find on market, but his silver foil interconnects always took a win against them. This information was very interesting to me, because: the price of such a cables were very affordable + I never heard or seen anything like that before. So its immediately smells to me like the holly grail of audiophile stuff: "the thing no one really know about, which have a price of a pint in your local pub, but sounds better then anything you may find on market!". That was the spot, when I heard the call of the quest and start digging for more information about this topic.
However, as I've mentioned before, you will hardly find anything about these cables on audiophile forums. Luckily I was able to spot a few threads, where the fellow members of our community, were making a speaker cables from the copper foil, leaving the very positive feedbacks about the sound of such a products.
Later, I found that not only DIYers were interested in such a concept, but also a few companies, who's been selling their cables, made from copper foils, for big bucks and the people were buying it, despite the fact that the conductors are easily available on the market and costs WAY LESS that the final price of the cables, such as "Townshend Isolda" (for example).
Here are the source and the prices for Mundorf coper foil https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/mundorf-copper-foil.html
To insulate the conductors - you may use the clear scotch tape + the outer teflon sleeve - to make the cables look more beautiful and add some extra lair of dielectric material.
And yes, I've made such a cables by myself and was able to listen the results of my work) Ironically, that was a time, when I moved from headphones - to speakers setup and that cables were the very first speaker cables I've even used, so have nothing to compare with it's performance - to understand how good or how bad they were)
Very soon after (about 3 weeks) I left all of my audio gears and moved out of the county. But that's a whole other story.



 
Does anyone here had an experience with flat cables, made from copper or silver foil?
This random memory strikes my mind today's morning and I felt like I really need to put an effort - to make a pair of interconnects and speaker cables - to compare it with DNM cables, what I currently have in my system ;-)
 
Townsend Isolda?

Excellent cable until you stand on it and short it out…

Well, this is where particular skills may benefits. If we will look of the picture with a description of what materials were used to build that cable, we may see that "polyester insulation" were used there. I remember that in the time, when I was searching the information about flat cables, I found that one shop in US, were selling the foils, insulated from both sides with a thin laire of polyester film. That foil was out of stock at that moment, so I wasn't able to buy it. However, I have a strong feeling that this is the one, been used in Townsend speaker cables.
Probably the insulation lair is a bit fragile and you can easily damage it, stepping on the cable or twisting it, which will make it short, due to it's construction.
But, if you will use the clear scotch tape - to build your own cable, I'm sure you want be able to short it so easy, as the scotch tape is more durable that the lair of polyester, you may find in Townsend Isolda.
 
The merits of foil cables have been known about for many years. There is nothing special about Mundorf foil either, there are quite a few types which are much better. I made my own about 20 years ago and have used them at shows ever since including at Munich from 2012 to 2014.
 
The merits of foil cables have been known about for many years. There is nothing special about Mundorf foil either, there are quite a few types which are much better. I made my own about 20 years ago and have used them at shows ever since including at Munich from 2012 to 2014.
Do tell!
 
There are two kinds of tape cables. The individual ones have the problem that at higher frequencies the current concentrates on the edges due to skin effect, so fairly high resistance.
The "sandwich" type gives low inductance and high capacitance, so good at making several amplifiers go up in smoke.
 
Townshend added magic boxes to theirs to stop certain amps going into oscillation - allegedly. Zobel something or other?

I thought that the main reason of that boxes was to cover the end of the foil, where the cable with the connector has been soldered. Like a heat shrinkable tube, but more advanced looking. The touch of the high-end)
 
Townshend added magic boxes to theirs to stop certain amps going into oscillation - allegedly. Zobel something or other?
Thiele networks at the output will make an amplifier unconditionally stable. Some amplifiers have no Thiele network but rely on a minimum length of cable to supply the necessary inductance and capacitance to render the amp stable. A Zobel network is something else used in electronics but hifi enthusiasts habitually confuse the two. For some reason Zobel seems to be more memorable than Thiele.
 
Well, this is where particular skills may benefits. If we will look of the picture with a description of what materials were used to build that cable, we may see that "polyester insulation" were used there. I remember that in the time, when I was searching the information about flat cables, I found that one shop in US, were selling the foils, insulated from both sides with a thin laire of polyester film. That foil was out of stock at that moment, so I wasn't able to buy it. However, I have a strong feeling that this is the one, been used in Townsend speaker cables.
Probably the insulation lair is a bit fragile and you can easily damage it, stepping on the cable or twisting it, which will make it short, due to it's construction.
But, if you will use the clear scotch tape - to build your own cable, I'm sure you want be able to short it so easy, as the scotch tape is more durable that the lair of polyester, you may find in Townsend Isolda.
watch out for English homophones!
Lair: a hiding place or den for a large predatory animal.
Layer: a thickness of material.
:)
 
watch out for English homophones!
Lair: a hiding place or den for a large predatory animal.
Layer: a thickness of material.
:)

Seeing that my English is not quite there, you still decide to use the term "homophones". Well, I must admit that reading your post, leads me to the most confusing 45 seconds in my entire life. Until uncle Google helped me to figure out what you actually meant ;-)
 
Seeing that my English is not quite there, you still decide to use the term "homophones". Well, I must admit that reading your post, leads me to the most confusing 45 seconds in my entire life. Until uncle Google helped me to figure out what you actually meant ;-)
I did decide to use homophones, because that's the right term and because I know that you can look it up. Also, if your first language is Latin based or Greek, you'll know what homophone means without looking it up. Oh, and your English is just fine.
I speak French, and I once mispronounced the French word "sort" (go out, leave) as if it was English . and the charming French woman to whom I was speaking heard "saut" meaning "jump". Yes, I suggested that I could come to her place and we could have a jump. Oops.
 
Thiele networks at the output will make an amplifier unconditionally stable. Some amplifiers have no Thiele network but rely on a minimum length of cable to supply the necessary inductance and capacitance to render the amp stable. A Zobel network is something else used in electronics but hifi enthusiasts habitually confuse the two. For some reason Zobel seems to be more memorable than Thiele.
I thought that it was a RC shunt ie Zobel, intended to provide RF termination at the speaker end. NOT to stabilize the amplifier.
 
Townshend added magic boxes to theirs to stop certain amps going into oscillation - allegedly. Zobel something or other?

Thiele networks at the output will make an amplifier unconditionally stable. Some amplifiers have no Thiele network but rely on a minimum length of cable to supply the necessary inductance and capacitance to render the amp stable. A Zobel network is something else used in electronics but hifi enthusiasts habitually confuse the two. For some reason Zobel seems to be more memorable than Thiele.

I thought that it was a RC shunt ie Zobel, intended to provide RF termination at the speaker end. NOT to stabilize the amplifier.
I was talking about the Townsend magic boxes, which apparently provide stability. I don't know what s in there but that sounds more liie a thiele than a Zobel.
 


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