The Concorde's baby - new supersonic commercial aircraft

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

that Supersaver target missile...we are in the late 50s so no computers and stuff I presume....how does the second missile find it?

I find nothing when I google Super Saver etc?

The aircraft which fired the missile is a Super Sabre, I suspect you misheard. A target missile was fired first, then a (heat-seeking) Sidewinder was fired to intercept it. The Sidewinder locked on to the hot exhaust from the rocket motor of the target missile.

 

[Snufkin]

As an aside, one of my favourite delta aircraft is the B-58 Hustler. This, copied from Wikipedia:

"The B-58 set 19 world speed records, including coast to coast records, and one for the longest supersonic flight in history. In 1963, it flew from Tokyo to London (via Alaska), a distance of 8,028 miles (12,920 km) in 8 hours, 35 minutes, 20.4 seconds, averaging 938 miles per hour (1,510 kilometres per hour). As of 2016, this record still stands. The aircraft was serving in an operational unit, and had not been modified in any way besides being washed and waxed. One of the goals of the flight was to push the limit of its new honeycomb construction technique. The speed of the flight was limited only by the speed at which they believed the honeycomb panels would delaminate, although one of the afterburners malfunctioned and the last hour of the flight was continued at subsonic speed. This reduced the average speed to roughly Mach 1.5, despite most of the flight being at Mach 2. This B-58 was called "Greased Lightning" – the codename for the record attempt."

That's something very special to this day.

I loved that bit. I assume the wash and wax was to reduce drag(?).

 

[stephen bennett]

The aircraft which fired the missile is a Super Sabre, .

Rich is talking about the budget model ...

Stephen

 

[richardg]

I always end up watching something on youtube from the endless US documentaries on military aircraft after threads come up on here. Now watching one on the XB70. It looks amazing.

The leap in the late 50s just in how they looked reminds me of the motorbike industry in the late 80s. Much more powerful, faster, lighter and with razor sharp handling that made bikes form 10 years before like dinosaurs. And there was never such a leap after it.

Have we had a what's your favourite aeroplane thread yet? Never ceases to amaze me how many badass looking things were created that I had no idea bout.

 

[-alan-]

I just think that describing a delta design as a low lift wing (on the grounds that one design parameter is very high speed operation) is to oversimplify unhelpfully.

Perhaps better to think of it as a wing-shape with a low Coefficient of Lift* - one where the actual lift force generated for any given speed is relatively low. The actual lift generated increases in proportion to the square of the speed, so allowing wings with low CLs to produce the required lift at high speeds, without the added drag penalty associated with high CL wing-sections.

*Coeff of Lift = Lift/(0.5 x Ro x( v)2 x S) with Ro being the density of the air, v the airspeed, and S the wing area - if my somewhat sketchy memory of fluids calls can be relied upon..

 

[Wick]

Alan, you are correct, I was thinking more of the low speed case and specifically the take-off/landing configuration. I don't know what Concorde's take off speed was (Vr), but to get there on a standard runway length it had to accelerate very quickly in full re-heat.

 

[davidsrsb]

Concorde Vr was 195 kts, compared with 155 kts for a 747

 

[Wick]

Thanks David, I was always curious. I was sitting on the flight deck of a C-130 waiting to enter the runway at Filton when we were asked to hold to let Concorde out. This was its very first take-off with reheat. They went up to full power, then lit the burners and it sat there for about 40 sec before they released the brakes. Being fairly light for a short test flight, it went off down the runway like a rocket. We were about 30 meters away and God was it loud! We couldn't hear ourselves speak even through the intercom. Wonderful experience!!

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Perhaps better to think of it as a wing-shape with a low Coefficient of Lift* - one where the actual lift force generated for any given speed is relatively low. The actual lift generated increases in proportion to the square of the speed, so allowing wings with low CLs to produce the required lift at high speeds, without the added drag penalty associated with high CL wing-sections.

Yes, I'll take that, it does make the point clear, so thanks. And, yes, my recollection is that (thin) deltas do have a comparatively low CL. I presume also that this is what Wick was alluding to, so apologies if I've drawn out an argument from very little.