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The 2024 Formula One Season

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Ferrari stolen from F1 driver Gerhard Berger recovered 28 years later​

Met police seize vehicle, stolen in Italy in 1995 and worth £350,000, in London as it was about to be sold to a US buyer


What model is that?
 
If he broke the law, hopefully the law will address it.
If he broke F1/team rules, hopefully F1/team will address it.
If he broke god's/internet poster's law, hopefully someone will post about it a lot.
 
I'd like to see a team do that, just the once at least. Just so I can say I saw it happen. Otherwise I can't think of anything more boring. Over 20 second lead at the finish is massive in this sport. If the other teams/drivers really are that far behind (even if the track was perfect for RB and terrible for all the rest it's hard to see how any track could swing the advantage back by 20 seconds or more), the VET will walk it this year.
Everyone else's sponsors would just love that.
 
Everyone else's sponsors would just love that.

If there's no suspense up front, the cameras will all be aimed at the back field battles, the sponsors should be very happy with all the air time. (perhaps that's what you meant, my irony filter isn't working today)
 
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It's a sad state of affairs that there is seemingly more interest in supposed scandals in F1 than in the racing itself. I guess that's what you get when it appears that both the driver and constructor title races are pretty much sewn up after the first boring race...
 
It's a sad state of affairs that there is seemingly more interest in supposed scandals in F1 than in the racing itself. I guess that's what you get when it appears that both the driver and constructor title races are pretty much sewn up after the first boring race...

Its sad when things like human decency and injustice are ignored or accepted because its a 'sport' or 'entertainment', we have seen how this historical 'lets not talk about it' approach worked out later in many areas haven't we?

There is room for discussion about all things, and remember, CH brought this particular one to the sport, not the fans or the victim and its been fanned considerably by those associated with RB moreso than anyone else.
 
Its sad when things like human decency and injustice are ignored or accepted because its a 'sport'.

Though once that door is opened the elephant in the room is exposed. The politics behind F1 is pretty vile IMHO. An annual parade of oligarch wealth through a sequence of pretty brutal dictatorships, theocracies and monarchies. There is a lot of exceptionally ugly money in F1 and whilst I admire it when say Hamilton wears a LGBTQ+ pride helmet in countries that routinely punish or even murder folk in that demographic it is still not enough.

This is the F1 entity. I‘m not ascribing blame to individual teams or manufacturers, let alone individual people, though I would far prefer to see pressure placed on/by teams to very radically changing the calendar and only racing in democracies that respect basic human rights.
 
Though once that door is opened the elephant in the room is exposed. The politics behind F1 is pretty vile IMHO. An annual parade of oligarch wealth through a sequence of pretty brutal dictatorships, theocracies and monarchies. There is a lot of exceptionally ugly money in F1 and whilst I admire it when say Hamilton wears a LGBTQ+ pride helmet in countries that routinely punish or even murder folk in that demographic it is still not enough.

This is the F1 entity. I‘m not ascribing blame to individual teams or manufacturers, let alone individual people, though I would far prefer to see pressure placed by teams to very radically changing the calendar and only racing in democracies that respect basic human rights.

Yes agree and understand, but you have no doubt witnessed on these F1 threads almost outrage projected when say Lewis does indeed promote injustices through his platform or Seb wearing his rainbow t shirt, it goes back to the old chestnut of 'don't bring politics into sport' when in fact, a lot of isn't politics at all it's just been made to seem that way to suit a narrative that would oppose and silence.

I'd love nothing more for the races to be banned in human right abuse hotspots, but while this won't happen probably ever due to the financial incentives not to, it's nice to see some drivers and teams showing their awareness through the platform, which in turn will be seen by everyone watching especially the younger more inquisitive fans 'why does Lewis's t shirt say that'...etc

Small steps to progression, however meaningless it may seem to many, its at least, for me anyway, something.

CH wants to act like a sleazy predator, then so be it, but it needs to be discussed otherwise its swept under the carpet and accpeted under the disguise of 'well he never admitted it so..'
 
Though once that door is opened the elephant in the room is exposed. The politics behind F1 is pretty vile IMHO. An annual parade of oligarch wealth through a sequence of pretty brutal dictatorships, theocracies and monarchies. There is a lot of exceptionally ugly money in F1 and whilst I admire it when say Hamilton wears a LGBTQ+ pride helmet in countries that routinely punish or even murder folk in that demographic it is still not enough.

This is the F1 entity. I‘m not ascribing blame to individual teams or manufacturers, let alone individual people, though I would far prefer to see pressure placed on/by teams to very radically changing the calendar and only racing in democracies that respect basic human rights.
Personally, I have practically zero respect for what is in my opinion nothing more than a token gesture. If he really cared, he would forego his millions and go and race in lesser series that don't have the same ethical and moral turpitude. He's very happy to take the money though isn't he, so in my book he has no more ethical or moral superiority over any of the other drivers.
 
Personally, I have practically zero respect for what is in my opinion nothing more than a token gesture. If he really cared, he would forego his millions and go and race in lesser series that don't have the same ethical and moral turpitude. He's very happy to take the money though isn't he, so in my book he has no more ethical or moral superiority over any of the other drivers.

I don’t agree. I think he has punched-back way above his weight. He clearly forced a culture change on BLM and has brought a global focus to other issues such as LGBTQ+ rights too. That is way, way more than most people achieve whilst doing their jobs. The key thing here is no one else did it. Some even refused to stand with him. I respect Lewis a lot for that. He actually moved the line a little.
 
I don’t agree. I think he has punched-back way above his weight. He clearly forced a culture change on BLM and has brought a global focus to other issues such as LGBTQ+ rights too. That is way, way more than most people achieve whilst doing their jobs. The key thing here is no one else did it. Some even refused to stand with him. I respect Lewis a lot for that. He actually moved the line a little.
Sorry, I'm still going to call those little more than token gestures. They pale in to insignificance against his willingness to be involved in and get paid millions by a sport that directly financially supports regimes that have next to zero respect for human lives. All things that he knew full well was the case before he ever drove in F1. F1 should just not be involved with SA etc. Through his participation he is directly enabling the payment of millions of $ of revenue to regimes that execute people and oppress the rights of minorities. As is every other F1 driver. They literally have no moral ground to stand on IMO no matter what other "good deads" they do, none of it will counter the harm they do just by being a driver.
 
If there's no suspense up front, the cameras will all be aimed at the back field battles, the sponsors should be very happy with all the air time. (perhaps that's what you meant, my irony filter isn't working today)
Actually, while I confess that this did occur to me, it wasn't! The whole point is to be a winner - people sponsor F1 because they want their brands to be identified with winners, so that this image is subconsciously transferred from the team to the product, resulting (hopefully) in more sales. The thought of being routinely thrashed by an energy drink must gall the life out of the Board at Stuttgart-Untertürkheim. It's the reason why teams routinely at the back of the grid have such difficulty in attracting sponsors. To be an enthusiast for the sport is very nice, but to be identified routinely with a back-marker is not, so there's a limit.

F1 is ultimately as much a series of commercial moving billboards as it is a sport. Gone are the days of Enzo Ferrari, whose sole passion in life was racing - the only reason he started to make road cars was to get the money to go racing. His place has been taken by hard-headed business calculation. I'd imagine that Oracle, Mobil and Claro must be feeling rather pleased with themselves:
rb20-front-right-65ce7cc5d1619.jpg
 
Personally, I have practically zero respect for what is in my opinion nothing more than a token gesture. If he really cared, he would forego his millions and go and race in lesser series that don't have the same ethical and moral turpitude. He's very happy to take the money though isn't he, so in my book he has no more ethical or moral superiority over any of the other drivers.
And how exactly would that help F1 to become more inclusive and to address issues of inequality in the countries it visits? Yes Hamilton is a wealthy man and in a sport that is in some ways is politically corrupt, but using his profile and fame to bring these issues to the attention of the spectators and viewers has surely got to be better than saying 'I am better than this' and disappearing into obscurity. Whenever anyone famous tries to stand up against injustices in the world there is always the subtext from many about how easy it is to preach from a privileged position. A great example of this is the derision aimed at Bono when he talks about stopping famine in Africa... yes he's rich and privileged, but he has also given more to charities and organisations to address these issues than most of us ever will... yet people still call him out as he is a millionaire... so what... at least he is doing something. That's how I feel about Hamilton and Vettel... yes they've made millions driving in F1, but at least they are doing something and I wonder just how many of those criticising have actually done something themselves? Not many I suspect.

PS The last bit is not aimed at you by the way.
 
And how exactly would that help F1 to become more inclusive and to address issues of inequality in the countries it visits? Yes Hamilton is a wealthy man and in a sport that is in some ways is politically corrupt, but using his profile and fame to bring these issues to the attention of the spectators and viewers has surely got to be better than saying 'I am better than this' and disappearing into obscurity. Whenever anyone famous tries to stand up against injustices in the world there is always the subtext from many about how easy it is to preach from a privileged position. A great example of this is the derision aimed at Bono when he talks about stopping famine in Africa... yes he's rich and privileged, but he has also given more to charities and organisations to address these issues than most of us ever will... yet people still call him out as he is a millionaire... so what... at least he is doing something. That's how I feel about Hamilton and Vettel... yes they've made millions driving in F1, but at least they are doing something and I wonder just how many of those criticising have actually done something themselves? Not many I suspect.

PS The last bit is not aimed at you by the way.
I'm absolutely sure Hamilton has done a lot of good through his donations etc. I've no doubt of that. I also have no doubt that (in his own mind at least) his intentions aren't anything other than honorable or that he doesn't have strong convictions on the topics he talks about. My problem is, nothing that he's done (and same goes for Vettel et al) has done anything to alter the fact that F1 is morally corrupt because of it's involvement with some of the worst regimes on the planet. They are at best "sidelines" to that fact. I know it's a naive position, but yes if everyone were to say "im better than this" and go elsewhere there would be no F1, or at the very least F1's financial security would be put at risk and that's probably the only thing that's likely to ever make them stop and think about who they're involved with. If Hamilton truly wanted to do something, he'd refuse to race in SA (for example), yes that would put his career in jeapardy, but that would then make it meaningful and would also bring proper media attention to the issue. With the best will in the world, when you're a millionaire, it's easy to "just gift your way in to the moral good books", I'm sure many people would give away tens of thousands or more to good causes if they could afford it.

There's a difference (in my book at least) when the likes of Bono or Bob Geldoff opening their mouths on issues: their income isn't in anyway associated or in any small part derived from the regimes or inhumanities they are pointing out/criticising. I also don't have the same critisism my father had of Live Aid for example. He felt that Live Aid was just a money making exercise for a bunch of Artists who's careers were on the wane. Whilst they undoubtedly did benefit financially, they also raised millions that otherwise wouldn't have been raised and thus literally saved peoples lives. I have no issue if somebody gains a bit of financial benefit from an act like that.

The devil, as they say, is in the detail.

PS - I never took it that way.
 
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I'm absolutely sure Hamilton has done a lot of good through his donations etc. I've no doubt of that. I also have no doubt that (in his own mind at least) his intentions are anything other than honorable or that he doesn't have strong convictions on the topics he talks about. My problem is, nothing that he's done (and same goes for Vettel et al) has done anything to alter the fact that F1 is morally corrupt because of it's involvement with some of the worst regimes on the planet. They are at best "sidelines" to that fact. I know it's a naive position, but yes if everyone were to say "im better than this" and go elsewhere because there would be no F1, or at the very least F1's financial security would be put at risk and that's probably the only thing that's likely to ever make them stop and think about who they're involved with. If Hamilton truly wanted to do something, he'd refuse to race in SA (for example), yes that would put his career in jeapardy, but that would then make it meaningful and would also bring proper media attention to the issue. With the best will in the world, when you're a millionaire, it's easy to "just gift your way in to the moral good books", I'm sure many people would give away tens of thousands or more to good causes if they could afford it.

There's a difference (in my book at least) between the likes of Bono or Bob Geldoff opening their mouths on issues: their income isn't in anyway associated or in any small part derived from the regimes or inhumanities they are pointing out/criticising. I also don't have the same critisism my father had of Live Aid for example. He felt that Live Aid was just a money making exercise for a bunch of Artists who's careers were on the wane. Whilst they undoubtedly did benefit financially, they also raised millions that otherwise wouldn't have been raised and thus literally saved peoples lives. I have no issue if somebody gains a bit of financial benefit from an act like that.

The devil, as they say, is in the detail.

PS - I never took it that way.
It's not naive, it's idealistic and the same as saying if everyone who could gave a pound a week we could end world poverty... true but not going to happen. At the end of the day I think Hamilton has made a difference... yes it may only be small, but people are talking and moves are afoot... things like this do not happen overnight.
 
Actually, while I confess that this did occur to me, it wasn't! The whole point is to be a winner - people sponsor F1 because they want their brands to be identified with winners, so that this image is subconsciously transferred from the team to the product, resulting (hopefully) in more sales. The thought of being routinely thrashed by an energy drink must gall the life out of the Board at Stuttgart-Untertürkheim. It's the reason why teams routinely at the back of the grid have such difficulty in attracting sponsors. To be an enthusiast for the sport is very nice, but to be identified routinely with a back-marker is not, so there's a limit.

F1 is ultimately as much a series of commercial moving billboards as it is a sport. Gone are the days of Enzo Ferrari, whose sole passion in life was racing - the only reason he started to make road cars was to get the money to go racing. His place has been taken by hard-headed business calculation. I'd imagine that Oracle, Mobil and Claro must be feeling rather pleased with themselves:
rb20-front-right-65ce7cc5d1619.jpg
Could be worse, the brand could be called "Vodka Red Bull" or "Jager Bomb" :)
 


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