TeddyCap clone on ebay
- Thread starter teddy_pardo
- Start date
This all started when I tweaked around with some capacitor multipliers and found a perfect combination for my ears.
That combination suits other peoples ears too by the looks of it.
What part of a capcitor multiplier or how you power it belongs to any one person including teddy?
Dont miss the most important and valid point that teddyregs are clones too of early Avondale boards and more than one person had input into how they are now made up but only one person has any right to sell them?
Using smps as power supplies for Naim is also contained within other web sites on the net and not just this one.
Up until the power supply in question none of my power supplies contained teddyregs. I resorted to this after being called many things on ebay through teddys spoof auctions.
Sorry but on this occassion when you look at the bigger picture we are both right and we are both wrong.
That combination suits other peoples ears too by the looks of it.
What part of a capcitor multiplier or how you power it belongs to any one person including teddy?
Dont miss the most important and valid point that teddyregs are clones too of early Avondale boards and more than one person had input into how they are now made up but only one person has any right to sell them?
Using smps as power supplies for Naim is also contained within other web sites on the net and not just this one.
Up until the power supply in question none of my power supplies contained teddyregs. I resorted to this after being called many things on ebay through teddys spoof auctions.
Sorry but on this occassion when you look at the bigger picture we are both right and we are both wrong.
Les: I wont be trying to copy your TPX boards as they are far too advanced, I will leave it to Naim themselves to try and catch up with you
teddy_pardo
Trade: Teddy Pardo
A clarification is required here:
Les, when I said inspired by your design I meant it in a general. I didn’t clone the APX, and I didn’t even see an APX or a schema of the APX. Les, you probably know, and I said it openly more than once, that I appreciate your products, your work, and your contribution to the community, but the TeddyReg is not a clone of anything, at least not consciously. The evolution of the TeddyReg can be followed on the various threads on this forum and it is clear who contributed and how.
Biskit_a,
1. I’m glad that you identified yourself. At least now we can put your previous posts in the right context. When you say “Makes my Teddyregs look more than a bit anaemic”, we know who stands behind these words.
2. Had you contributed to the design of the TeddyReg and then sold TeddyReg based PSU, I wouldn’t have said a word. Had you designed you own original power supply and sold them on eBay, I would have kept my mouth shut. Hadn’t you referenced my auction in your auction, I would have filled my mouth with water. Hadn’t you revised your auction thirty times, and in each revision insulted me in a different way, I wouldn’t have done a thing. Hadn't you used exactly the same case as me, the same RCRCRC configuration, the same arguments in your auction, I would have remained quiet. You did none of the above, and still I didn’t do a thing. But you noticed that I remained silence, and decided to cross another red line. You created a complete clone of the TeddyCap, and probably thought that you’ve found a great opportunity. As I mentioned in my previous post, you and people like you don’t even think they’ve done anything wrong. You just don't know where to draw the line. You are so convinced that it's almost convincing...
3. Sorry, I don’t believe a word you say. When you say “I used teddyreg boards in one power supply and one power supply only and only to make a point.”, I also know that you tried to buy more TeddyRegs from Neil but he didn’t sell you.
Don’t expect me or anyone to believe you that you don’t sell your PSUs for profit. Even when you sold your HP Printer based power supplies for 125 pound, you still did a 100 pound profit. What are you trying to convince us or yourself? That you are some sort of Robin Hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor without profit? Shall we call you Mr. Charity?
4. You blamed me for overpricing the TeddyCap, well Mr Biskit_a, in case you didn’t know, all my TeddyCaps were sold via auctions with no reserve, and the wining bidder decided the price. The only exceptions were some PFM-er that I knew, who approached me directly and got a special price. I always encouraged people to build their own, and suggested help, many here can testify.
5. I’m sharing my ideas and designs, and I don’t claim ownership or intellectual property. The TeddyReg thread and other threads provided me fun and satisfaction that money can’t buy. Thankfully I’m in a situation where I don’t need extra money, and I have more than I need. The whole context in which I’m selling the TeddyCap is probably very different than yours.
This is it, this is probably one of my longest posts, and I think that I should keep my energy and time for more productive things
Sincerely, Teddy
I know that I am in the wrong to a certain degree by putting a complete Teddycap on ebay yesterday but then so is Teddy in the wrong and thats the crux of the matter.
But;
How can one person take a circuit that is already in existance, tweak it with other peoples help and then call it his own but then say that no one else can do the very same? On top of that the Teddycaps are sold for more money than most people can afford when they shuold be a reasonable price in the first place when you consider what they cost to build.
For some one to say to me that I have to ask Teddy first if I can either use an smps as a power source or a capacitor multiplier as the basis for a fiilter circuit is not on. Next I will have to ask if its ok to use the same transistors and resistors in my projects if Teddy also uses them in his.
Where do you draw the line on clones and what is a clone of what?
Look at my auctions Teddy I provide pictures with them all and they are not Teddyregs but very good tweaked capacitor multipliers that do the buisness.
I listed one power supply yesterday that clearly showed the teddyreg boards for all to see, I hid nothing, WHY? I knew the trouble that it would cause so why did I do it? Answers on a postcard please.
You have listed on ebay a double Teddycap for nearly £900 buy it now. You had 2 on at the time, sold one and then withdrew the other?
I listed one power supply yesterday that clearly showed the teddyreg boards for all to see, I hid nothing, WHY? I knew the trouble that it would cause so why did I do it? Answers on a postcard please.
You have listed on ebay a double Teddycap for nearly £900 buy it now. You had 2 on at the time, sold one and then withdrew the other?
colliedoggy
Active Member
"I have been talking with Teddy about offering a group buy on professionally made pcbs. Teddy has kindly agreed to the group buy under a kind of open source basis, on the condition they are purchased for personal use only & strictly for non-commercial use."
You bought the boards on that basis, then violated that condition.
I am sorry, but that is dishonourable. End of story!
You bought the boards on that basis, then violated that condition.
I am sorry, but that is dishonourable. End of story!
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Biskit, your moral compass is on the piss. You might think you are ashowing Teddy out to be some rip off merchant, but actually you just come off as a cheat and a liar yourself. Up until the PCB groupo Tedy handbuilt all his supplies, i know because i have one.
Is it worth the cost if you look at the build cost, of course it isn't, is a super cap, no don't be f-in stupid, nothing is. Is it worth what i paid for it for the job that it does, yes. So it's fairly priced.
Basically you've ripped off someobody elses none protected design, and had the balls to use his PCB's to do it, undercutting him and destroying his business viability while taking advantage of his generosity.
Personally i think that stinks.
If you had been a major contributor to these power supply threads then it may have been different, but you weren't.
Is it worth the cost if you look at the build cost, of course it isn't, is a super cap, no don't be f-in stupid, nothing is. Is it worth what i paid for it for the job that it does, yes. So it's fairly priced.
Basically you've ripped off someobody elses none protected design, and had the balls to use his PCB's to do it, undercutting him and destroying his business viability while taking advantage of his generosity.
Personally i think that stinks.
If you had been a major contributor to these power supply threads then it may have been different, but you weren't.
My moral compass is fine thanks. According to Teddy I am the rip off merchant?
I used one set of teddyreg boards in one power supply in order to get this discussion going and allot of things out in the domain for all to have a say.
Its not all about me or Teddy but where the line is between what some one can or cant make and sell on? All of what I have done within my power supplies is spread accross many sites. If what people are saying is true then no one can build anything and sell on because some part of what they build will be contained within something else somewhere?
None of my other power supplies contain teddyregs but they do contain tweaked capacitor multipliers, technology which I believe belongs to no one person. Look at them they all have pictures?
I used one set of teddyreg boards in one power supply in order to get this discussion going and allot of things out in the domain for all to have a say.
Its not all about me or Teddy but where the line is between what some one can or cant make and sell on? All of what I have done within my power supplies is spread accross many sites. If what people are saying is true then no one can build anything and sell on because some part of what they build will be contained within something else somewhere?
None of my other power supplies contain teddyregs but they do contain tweaked capacitor multipliers, technology which I believe belongs to no one person. Look at them they all have pictures?
Dowser
Learning to bodge again..
I side with Teddy here too - we have all watched the development of the Teddy Reg. Even if it was an exact copy of the APX (which it is not), it got there through a very public development on this forum that is available for all to view.
Andy - the fact that you purchased items on the condition they were for strictly non-commercial use, and then used them commercially, is where you have (IMO) shamed yourself.
All of Teddy's eBay listings that I have followed have been with no BIN price. But even if he chose to sell them with a BIN, so what? The market decides what a product is worth, not an individual - not the seller, and certainly not another DIY'er!
FWIW, when I first saw the success of Teddy's eBay listings I also considered making clones using his freely available design. It would have been in a nicer case though However, I didn't due to not feeling good about doing so, given the benefit Teddy has brought to the wider PFM community through openess of his designs.
Richard
Andy - the fact that you purchased items on the condition they were for strictly non-commercial use, and then used them commercially, is where you have (IMO) shamed yourself.
All of Teddy's eBay listings that I have followed have been with no BIN price. But even if he chose to sell them with a BIN, so what? The market decides what a product is worth, not an individual - not the seller, and certainly not another DIY'er!
FWIW, when I first saw the success of Teddy's eBay listings I also considered making clones using his freely available design. It would have been in a nicer case though
However, I didn't due to not feeling good about doing so, given the benefit Teddy has brought to the wider PFM community through openess of his designs. Richard
I am off to work soon but please carry on this debate in my absence and I will catch up later on.
I have very broad shoulders but I would ask that you keep any swearing out of your posts. You do not need to swear in order to get your points accross.
My power supplies are not copies of teddyregs, they are tweaked capacitor multipliers, thats the point that I am making and trying to get accross. Yes I did clone one complete Teddycap so that this debate would take place and I have appologised for doing so to everyone.
No one will give me a difinitive answer on where a clone starts and finishes. That may be because evrything is a clone of evrything else? Or am I wong again?
I have very broad shoulders but I would ask that you keep any swearing out of your posts. You do not need to swear in order to get your points accross.
My power supplies are not copies of teddyregs, they are tweaked capacitor multipliers, thats the point that I am making and trying to get accross. Yes I did clone one complete Teddycap so that this debate would take place and I have appologised for doing so to everyone.
No one will give me a difinitive answer on where a clone starts and finishes. That may be because evrything is a clone of evrything else? Or am I wong again?
teddy_pardo
Trade: Teddy Pardo
Do you really believe that all people here a stupid? Do you really think that anyone except yourself believes what you say?
It reminds me of the joke about this person riding the highway in the opposite lane, and hearing on the radio a warning about a crazy driver driving the highway in the opposite lane, then he says to himself one driver? look how many?
biskit_a your moral compass is fine, it's just that other people's compass show a different direction...
Teddy
Teddy, look at the pictures on my listings, they are not Teddyregs and I have not hidden anything or sold closed boxes, why, they are not teddyregs
Not everyone is going for my throat and not many would take on what I have.
No one is stupid, this should be an open discussion between adults, is it not? This topic is way over due for airing anyway.
By the way I smiled at your little diity, very good.
Not everyone is going for my throat and not many would take on what I have.
No one is stupid, this should be an open discussion between adults, is it not? This topic is way over due for airing anyway.
By the way I smiled at your little diity, very good.
From Teddy:
"Les, when I said inspired by your design I meant it in a general. I didn’t clone the APX, and I didn’t even see an APX or a schema of the APX. Les, you probably know, and I said it openly more than once, that I appreciate your products, your work, and your contribution to the community, but the TeddyReg is not a clone of anything, at least not consciously. The evolution of the TeddyReg can be followed on the various threads on this forum and it is clear who contributed and how."
I appreciate the comments Teddy and was merely acknowledging the compliments paid both by yourself and by Andy. I don't think though, that I've ever claimed that your design was a clone of my own.
"Les, when I said inspired by your design I meant it in a general. I didn’t clone the APX, and I didn’t even see an APX or a schema of the APX. Les, you probably know, and I said it openly more than once, that I appreciate your products, your work, and your contribution to the community, but the TeddyReg is not a clone of anything, at least not consciously. The evolution of the TeddyReg can be followed on the various threads on this forum and it is clear who contributed and how."
I appreciate the comments Teddy and was merely acknowledging the compliments paid both by yourself and by Andy. I don't think though, that I've ever claimed that your design was a clone of my own.
teddy_pardo
Trade: Teddy Pardo
Thanks Les, appreciated!
YNWOAN
100% Analogue
Blimey, I can't believe I've only just read this thread! The problem, it seems to me, is that a number of subtly differing issues are being discussed simultaneously and, therefore, it is difficult to come to a holistic conclusion.
As far as I can see (though I freely admit to no experience in this area) the supply’s made by 'biskit a', prior to his Teddycap clone, did not use Teddyregs (please feel free to correct this statement though). If this is true I don't see how they can be classed as copies; no more than a Teddycap is a copy of a Hi-Cap - they both do the same thing (essentially) but in differing ways.
Prior to this thread I don't recall anybody posting any claims that the Teddyregs were not (essentially) the intellectual property of Teddy Pardo - this is a separate issue. Certainly, as Teddy states, the recent group buy was authorised on the premise that they would not be used for commercial gain.
The value for money issue is another one altogether. The whole problem is that 'value for money' is very much dependent on the buyer and is entirely a subjective issue. As an example, let us consider the recent NJ 321 and 729 boards; these are professionally laid out and made and I 'purchased' fully built ones from Flatpopely (beers this weekend mate) for very little over the cost of the bits - essentially, zero profit. By any standards (that I know off) this is 'good value for money' but it is not a commercial reality (not that Flatpopely ever thought it was). If these boards were sold by Naim, as an upgrade, they would certainly have to cost very much more (quite probably 5X). Andrew (Flatpopely) already has a business so these boards did not have to pay the rent, his mortgage, his living expenses, his profit, cost of maintaining the production facility, cost of equipment, staff costs, pension costs, marketing costs, dealer mark-up etc. He simply looked at the raw cost of the bits (to him) and added a few quid to make sure he didn't end up making a loss on them.
'biscit a' feels that a 'Teddycap' is poor value for money and by the standards of the NJ321/729 boards it is. However, Teddy is not making a couple for enthusiast mates; he is making them to sell for profit (he does not claim otherwise). If you look inside a Hi-Cap you see a rather nice case, a big transformer, a couple of big capacitors and about a dozen resistors etc. - certainly the raw cost of these bits is absolutely nothing like the retail price of the finished unit. Yet, for many, the sonic result makes it 'good value for money'. If we now consider the Teddycap we see an 'off the shelf' plastic case', a medium sized transformer, a small bank of capacitors and a handful of resistors etc. Certainly the cost of these bits is also very much less than the retail price of this unit. However, it is also approximately half the price of a Hi-Cap; if some (not necessarily us) are happy with the performance/price ratio of a Hi-Cap then what does that mean for the 'value for money' of a Teddycap, irrespective of the profit to component cost ratio?
As far as I can see (though I freely admit to no experience in this area) the supply’s made by 'biskit a', prior to his Teddycap clone, did not use Teddyregs (please feel free to correct this statement though). If this is true I don't see how they can be classed as copies; no more than a Teddycap is a copy of a Hi-Cap - they both do the same thing (essentially) but in differing ways.
Prior to this thread I don't recall anybody posting any claims that the Teddyregs were not (essentially) the intellectual property of Teddy Pardo - this is a separate issue. Certainly, as Teddy states, the recent group buy was authorised on the premise that they would not be used for commercial gain.
The value for money issue is another one altogether. The whole problem is that 'value for money' is very much dependent on the buyer and is entirely a subjective issue. As an example, let us consider the recent NJ 321 and 729 boards; these are professionally laid out and made and I 'purchased' fully built ones from Flatpopely (beers this weekend mate) for very little over the cost of the bits - essentially, zero profit. By any standards (that I know off) this is 'good value for money' but it is not a commercial reality (not that Flatpopely ever thought it was). If these boards were sold by Naim, as an upgrade, they would certainly have to cost very much more (quite probably 5X). Andrew (Flatpopely) already has a business so these boards did not have to pay the rent, his mortgage, his living expenses, his profit, cost of maintaining the production facility, cost of equipment, staff costs, pension costs, marketing costs, dealer mark-up etc. He simply looked at the raw cost of the bits (to him) and added a few quid to make sure he didn't end up making a loss on them.
'biscit a' feels that a 'Teddycap' is poor value for money and by the standards of the NJ321/729 boards it is. However, Teddy is not making a couple for enthusiast mates; he is making them to sell for profit (he does not claim otherwise). If you look inside a Hi-Cap you see a rather nice case, a big transformer, a couple of big capacitors and about a dozen resistors etc. - certainly the raw cost of these bits is absolutely nothing like the retail price of the finished unit. Yet, for many, the sonic result makes it 'good value for money'. If we now consider the Teddycap we see an 'off the shelf' plastic case', a medium sized transformer, a small bank of capacitors and a handful of resistors etc. Certainly the cost of these bits is also very much less than the retail price of this unit. However, it is also approximately half the price of a Hi-Cap; if some (not necessarily us) are happy with the performance/price ratio of a Hi-Cap then what does that mean for the 'value for money' of a Teddycap, irrespective of the profit to component cost ratio?
I put a complete clone of a teddycap on ebay because I felt that it was the only way for me to start this debate.
I have been accused of lots by Teddy before the Teddycap clone that I put on ebay and thats what I want to get sorted so that no one else falls into this hole again.
Yes there are lots of interesting issues surrounding all of this and none to run away from.
Other people should also be able to sell good power supplies if they want to and that can only be good for all concerened. People wont though because of things like this and thats bad for all concerned.
I have been accused of lots by Teddy before the Teddycap clone that I put on ebay and thats what I want to get sorted so that no one else falls into this hole again.
Yes there are lots of interesting issues surrounding all of this and none to run away from.
Other people should also be able to sell good power supplies if they want to and that can only be good for all concerened. People wont though because of things like this and thats bad for all concerned.