TD160
- Thread starter JimKempton
- Start date
DSJR
Between us and them
The Shure M97XE will work fine with Thorens 160 arms as long as the bearings have the free-play (rattle) "just" tweaked out of them and you use the damping brush affair in accordance with the Shure directions.
I should temper my (and HiFi Dave's) comments by saying that when we both sold Thorens, the RB250/300 and Linn Basik arms hadn't been launched, together with the fine looking metal mounting plates and seeing as Thorens fitted a late version of the TD166 (with inferior plastic inner hub) with an RB250 and AT95E (I think), you may find a substantial improvement today over that which we had a million years ago.
I've been promised (threatened with...) a 160 Super with SME fixed head arm, but won't have it here in the turntable collection until late Summer now.. For now, I need a new arm-rest for the Dual (the spring loaded arm-clamp has failed due to crumbling plastic parts inside) and for my sins I have an old Beogram 3000 from the seventies to fettle (no, sadly not the Beogram 3000 that was a TD124 with ST/L arm...) .
The MAIN problem with some of these old Thorens' is wobbly main bearings (the inner hub rocks from side to side) and this affected some late 150's, early 160's and 125 mk2's as well. The 160's I used to set up in the mid to late seventies had a different bearing to the Linn-like wide shaft/twin bushes version and had instead a narrower spindle with a single deep brass/bronze bushing which fitted perfectly. Later still, the bearing reverted to the wider shaft with two bushings but with a proper tolerance so it didn't wobble about.
Regarding the above, wobbly main bearings with no oily cushioning is a killer for sound quality. Part filling a la Linn with EP90 gear oil (similar in characteristic but heavier I think, to the [Texaco?] Crown oil that Thorens used so sparingly) works wonders with these decks, as well as the spiral wound Systemdeck bearing, wayward AR decks (later XB's and early UK Legend models) and any decks with suspect main bearing play. Some have even gone as far as to use molebdenum grease for these wobblers and claimed improved sound, but I doubt the bearing-spindle tip will thank you for this, long term, as the tip wouldn't be lubricated as well as the shaft methinks and may possibly overheat (I don't have the science, but the faulty batch of LP12 thrust plates from the mid-eighties caused a sort of "burning" on the spindle tip and decks thus equipped sounded horrible within an hour of use when set up).
I should temper my (and HiFi Dave's) comments by saying that when we both sold Thorens, the RB250/300 and Linn Basik arms hadn't been launched, together with the fine looking metal mounting plates and seeing as Thorens fitted a late version of the TD166 (with inferior plastic inner hub) with an RB250 and AT95E (I think), you may find a substantial improvement today over that which we had a million years ago.
I've been promised (threatened with...) a 160 Super with SME fixed head arm, but won't have it here in the turntable collection until late Summer now.. For now, I need a new arm-rest for the Dual (the spring loaded arm-clamp has failed due to crumbling plastic parts inside) and for my sins I have an old Beogram 3000 from the seventies to fettle (no, sadly not the Beogram 3000 that was a TD124 with ST/L arm...) .
The MAIN problem with some of these old Thorens' is wobbly main bearings (the inner hub rocks from side to side) and this affected some late 150's, early 160's and 125 mk2's as well. The 160's I used to set up in the mid to late seventies had a different bearing to the Linn-like wide shaft/twin bushes version and had instead a narrower spindle with a single deep brass/bronze bushing which fitted perfectly. Later still, the bearing reverted to the wider shaft with two bushings but with a proper tolerance so it didn't wobble about.
Regarding the above, wobbly main bearings with no oily cushioning is a killer for sound quality. Part filling a la Linn with EP90 gear oil (similar in characteristic but heavier I think, to the [Texaco?] Crown oil that Thorens used so sparingly) works wonders with these decks, as well as the spiral wound Systemdeck bearing, wayward AR decks (later XB's and early UK Legend models) and any decks with suspect main bearing play. Some have even gone as far as to use molebdenum grease for these wobblers and claimed improved sound, but I doubt the bearing-spindle tip will thank you for this, long term, as the tip wouldn't be lubricated as well as the shaft methinks and may possibly overheat (I don't have the science, but the faulty batch of LP12 thrust plates from the mid-eighties caused a sort of "burning" on the spindle tip and decks thus equipped sounded horrible within an hour of use when set up).
Arfa
pfm Member
Picked up a TD 160 Super a couple of years ago as my first proper excursion into vinyl (just had a crappy plastic Sony deck before that). Plonked on a Linn Basik LVX arm, Alu mounting plate and a new AT 440MLa cart, tinkered with the suspension, got it bouncing nice - sounded pretty damned good for £200 all in.
I've since serviced, tweaked, upgraded and modding the bejesus out of it:- New belt, reqired earth line, Target wall shelf (essential), Heed Orbit 2 PSU (big improvement, better defined bass and detail), ditched speed selector belt lever (redundant with Heed and gives more room for suspension tuning), Funk Achromat (small improvement), SRM Tech bearing mods/grease, damping bands and motor thrust bearing thingy (together reduced bearing/motor noise, lowered noise floor), Linn black springs/grommets (didn't notice much), dampened arm counter weight with teflon tape (slight difference, I think). Finally some Mcguires PlastX polish made the lid come up nice too.
Just need to swap the arm for something really nice, but will have to wait until funds allow. Tempted by that Alphason HR100S currently on ebay... Dunno how it compares to your Rega, Linn, Garrard etc, but after all the time and effort you put in, you get a bit attached to it sentimentally.
DSRJ: interesting what you say about molebdenum grease, as I think that's what came with the SRM Tech mods kit. That said the main bearing is now riding on a disc of teflon. Didn't notice any adverse difference, definitely improved things a little.
I've since serviced, tweaked, upgraded and modding the bejesus out of it:- New belt, reqired earth line, Target wall shelf (essential), Heed Orbit 2 PSU (big improvement, better defined bass and detail), ditched speed selector belt lever (redundant with Heed and gives more room for suspension tuning), Funk Achromat (small improvement), SRM Tech bearing mods/grease, damping bands and motor thrust bearing thingy (together reduced bearing/motor noise, lowered noise floor), Linn black springs/grommets (didn't notice much), dampened arm counter weight with teflon tape (slight difference, I think). Finally some Mcguires PlastX polish made the lid come up nice too.
Just need to swap the arm for something really nice, but will have to wait until funds allow. Tempted by that Alphason HR100S currently on ebay... Dunno how it compares to your Rega, Linn, Garrard etc, but after all the time and effort you put in, you get a bit attached to it sentimentally.
DSRJ: interesting what you say about molebdenum grease, as I think that's what came with the SRM Tech mods kit. That said the main bearing is now riding on a disc of teflon. Didn't notice any adverse difference, definitely improved things a little.
Uncle Ants
I'm a Shop Keeper
David, pretty sure we fitted a 1006 stylus to it - it was what I had in the toolbox. You needed to get an SME armboard for it I think. The arm should use one but it was fixed in place so we couldn't adjust alignment which was a bit out.
A 1006 would fit, as would a 1022 or 1042, they were interchangeable on that series of carts which shared a body. I don't think (IIRC) the Roksan Corus mods extended to the bodies, it was just the stylus/suspension/generator arrangements that changed.
One of the upgrades of the time was to buy a lower model with a view to upgrading with a 1042 stylus later, but as I recall it the 1042 stylus itself was at least £110 when the whole thing was £120, so it hardly made sense and I imagine most people bought something else when they wore out. I know mine is far from worn out and it's done a lot of miles, so they last well.
One of the upgrades of the time was to buy a lower model with a view to upgrading with a 1042 stylus later, but as I recall it the 1042 stylus itself was at least £110 when the whole thing was £120, so it hardly made sense and I imagine most people bought something else when they wore out. I know mine is far from worn out and it's done a lot of miles, so they last well.
Yes, true enough.
A new plate was sorted (cheers Pete).
I think it was a 1006 stylus, yes.
Thanks.
Yes, I had the option of the corus black but could not run to it.
Got to sort out that oil cushion too.
Sorry didn't mean to gate crash your thread OP.
Go with a SME S2/improved and enjoy it. I very happily used that combo for years on my TD160 Super, it's very musical and it will never tire you either. A great combo. The Rega arms sound terrible on it IMHO. Drabs the word for that.
R
I think the 774 could be a very good choice actually, they were a known match for the LP12 so a TD160 should work too. Get a cart that likes the 774 and vice versa, and save the cost of an SME, use the money to buy the cart. Everyone's happy.
I suspect a Rega might be dull on a TD too, not that I know the combo but from experience on Linns it may be the case.
I suspect a Rega might be dull on a TD too, not that I know the combo but from experience on Linns it may be the case.
I have my dad's Thorens TD160 Mk 1 circa 1974 in near original condition - it is a good player but a "new" headshell is very expensive to buy in - almost pushes you towards a new arm & then try selling the arm you have to offset costs.
I get belts from Technical & General
An arm which may work would be the Sugden SAU2 - I'm told compares favourably with the SME of that era. It is a short arm however with spindle to arm centre 199mm I've seen Thorens for sale with these fitted so it must be achievable & the cost of these arms is negligible.
I get belts from Technical & General
An arm which may work would be the Sugden SAU2 - I'm told compares favourably with the SME of that era. It is a short arm however with spindle to arm centre 199mm I've seen Thorens for sale with these fitted so it must be achievable & the cost of these arms is negligible.
rkay5
Active Member
Hi
I have 2 thorens a TD150 and TD166mkII with the rare 10mm bearing. So
with the TD150 new hardwood plinth a Sole Sub-Chassis for the TD150 very very big impovement deeper bass more detail,Mose/Hercules II psu adds more bass more detailed mid & highs, Linn armboard springs rubber grommets and bolts,main bearing metal thrust plate, motor thrust plate,Cork Damping main platter and MDF damping ring sub platter,As for a tonearm I mostly use a AudioQuest PT6 just got a new heavyweight counterweight for it and sometimes I use a RB250 rewired with a Michell Tecnoweight so witch is better? I think the the AQ PT6 is the winner maybe, but you know I can't make up my mind as to witch one is better. As for cartridge I use Denon DL110 or DL160 HOMC . Now the TD166mkII with the 10mm bearing so I got a TD125 sub platterand add a metal thrust plate, oak plinth, Linn springs rubber grommets, with the 16v motor it's powered by a Pro-ject Speedbox II and the Speedbox has a better psu a 30VA 15V+15V Toroidal Transformer more bass and detail, for a armboard I have custom made ones based on the Linn armboard laminate with the Formica material Formica/MDF/Formica I think it sounds better than the aluminium one I did have once. I feel the Td150 is a better sounding table after all the mods and I feel it's close to the newer Linns
Have a look. Robert
http://vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_showpage.php?pic_id=11970&user_id=7931
I have 2 thorens a TD150 and TD166mkII with the rare 10mm bearing. So
with the TD150 new hardwood plinth a Sole Sub-Chassis for the TD150 very very big impovement deeper bass more detail,Mose/Hercules II psu adds more bass more detailed mid & highs, Linn armboard springs rubber grommets and bolts,main bearing metal thrust plate, motor thrust plate,Cork Damping main platter and MDF damping ring sub platter,As for a tonearm I mostly use a AudioQuest PT6 just got a new heavyweight counterweight for it and sometimes I use a RB250 rewired with a Michell Tecnoweight so witch is better? I
think the the AQ PT6 is the winner maybe, but you know I can't make up my mind as to witch one is better. As for cartridge I use Denon DL110 or DL160 HOMC . Now the TD166mkII with the 10mm bearing so I got a TD125 sub platterand add a metal thrust plate, oak plinth, Linn springs rubber grommets, with the 16v motor it's powered by a Pro-ject Speedbox II and the Speedbox has a better psu a 30VA 15V+15V Toroidal Transformer more bass and detail, for a armboard I have custom made ones based on the Linn armboard laminate with the Formica material Formica/MDF/Formica I think it sounds better than the aluminium one I did have once. I feel the Td150 is a better sounding table after all the mods and I feel it's close to the newer Linns Have a look. Robert
http://vinylengine.com/phpBB2/album_showpage.php?pic_id=11970&user_id=7931