System harshness - inner ear resonance horribleness
- Thread starter hacker
- Start date
RustyB
Registered Ginga
I wouldn't dismiss the source; the CD3.5, even with a Hicap, can sound very harsh.
I can't imagine a laptop being a fantastic source either.
Other than that, can you use a frequency generator or test CD to pinpoint a particular frequency band that sets this off? Might help to sleuth it.
I can't imagine a laptop being a fantastic source either.
Other than that, can you use a frequency generator or test CD to pinpoint a particular frequency band that sets this off? Might help to sleuth it.
quote- "Wima MKS4s and Evox MMKs work much better for me - no such problems at all."
Been having problems sourcing some caps. RS are out of stock and charge a fortune for postage and farnell want me to spend over 20 quid, but i do have mks4 1uF (quite a few actually).
My question is, as outlined in a previous post i need to make sure my RC product is greater than 20ms or i lose out on bass. My amp is only 10K input so i need at least 2uF, preferably a little more. Is it ok to use some caps in parallel ie 2 or 3 of the 1 uF for coupling or is that just wasting my time. Im going to replace the Non polar type black gates in my alpha 5 and move those to some power regulation somewhere.
Ta
Been having problems sourcing some caps. RS are out of stock and charge a fortune for postage and farnell want me to spend over 20 quid, but i do have mks4 1uF (quite a few actually).
My question is, as outlined in a previous post i need to make sure my RC product is greater than 20ms or i lose out on bass. My amp is only 10K input so i need at least 2uF, preferably a little more. Is it ok to use some caps in parallel ie 2 or 3 of the 1 uF for coupling or is that just wasting my time. Im going to replace the Non polar type black gates in my alpha 5 and move those to some power regulation somewhere.
Ta
martin clark
pinko bodger
bottleneck
pfm Member
Fretless Eric
Musketeer Bathos
Totally unfashionable, of course, but this could be a job for Black Gate type N.
I haven't seen these mentioned much at all recently [I admit that I have not had the time here that I would have liked]. I am quite fond but the prices are high nowadays.
I haven't seen these mentioned much at all recently [I admit that I have not had the time here that I would have liked]. I am quite fond but the prices are high nowadays.
C
ced
Guest
Hi Carl,
I'd also recommend try changing your coupling caps on the pre first. Silmics are very easy on the ear which would be a first port of call. If that works you've identified the problem. Don't think the resistors (no offence Ron) make sufficient difference to make/break the sound. CD player would be the next port of call and yep I agree cd3.5 with hicap is still edgy. I would recommend a decent vinyl deck say rega planar 3 or 5 upwards and decent cart to test if the CD player is at fault. If yes, theres a lot of work to be done on the CD3.5 to take the rough edges out.
cheers
ced
I'd also recommend try changing your coupling caps on the pre first. Silmics are very easy on the ear which would be a first port of call. If that works you've identified the problem. Don't think the resistors (no offence Ron) make sufficient difference to make/break the sound. CD player would be the next port of call and yep I agree cd3.5 with hicap is still edgy. I would recommend a decent vinyl deck say rega planar 3 or 5 upwards and decent cart to test if the CD player is at fault. If yes, theres a lot of work to be done on the CD3.5 to take the rough edges out.
cheers
ced
bottleneck
pfm Member
" I seem to be posting like mad recently and I've certainly posted about this before, but I'm starting to get annoyed by this problem...
Music from my system can be extremely harsh when played at volume. The harshness is a kind of rattling in my ears, an abrasive resonance that is most prominent in upper mids, especially female vocals. It's most frustrating and gets very tiring.
Recently I've swapped out my speakers for a pair of very nice Wilmslow custom builds with lovely ribbon tweeters that were in no way harsh at the Wilmslow workshop. I've also hooked up the starfish in place of my 62 and (before it started crackling!) had the chance to place quite a bit of music through it. I've also moved house.... so to recap, new pre, new speakers, new room.
The harshness still persists "
why are so many people suggesting changing capacitors when it's a historical problem that has affected more than one pair of speakers?
Your problem (I would hazard a guess) involves speaker placement, room acoustics and the position of the listener.
Music from my system can be extremely harsh when played at volume. The harshness is a kind of rattling in my ears, an abrasive resonance that is most prominent in upper mids, especially female vocals. It's most frustrating and gets very tiring.
Recently I've swapped out my speakers for a pair of very nice Wilmslow custom builds with lovely ribbon tweeters that were in no way harsh at the Wilmslow workshop. I've also hooked up the starfish in place of my 62 and (before it started crackling!) had the chance to place quite a bit of music through it. I've also moved house.... so to recap, new pre, new speakers, new room.
The harshness still persists "
why are so many people suggesting changing capacitors when it's a historical problem that has affected more than one pair of speakers?
Your problem (I would hazard a guess) involves speaker placement, room acoustics and the position of the listener.
ced said:
I removed all the SMRs from the signal path late last night, replacing them with 10u tants. I have left the CD player on repeat at home today while I go to work and will have a listen when I get home tonight.
ced said:
The CD3.5 is actually pretty maxed out, incorporating most (all?) of the mods on acoustica, internal ALWSRs on the analog rails, all the opamps are OPA627 (with a 10u tant soldered across the supply pins of each one), the DAC is powerd by a Flea board and the clock is a Flea'd Tent XO. The standard trafo is offboard, the analog rails have their own trafo (smoothed by kendeils and the SRs have a FET-based VBE upstream), the DAC and clock have their own little toroid and the naim toroid is doing the rest of the digital stuff. It's sounds not bad, and in listening tests with a friends CD3.5 it was much smoother.
KeithL said:
Fantastic offer, Keith. I'm in Hull - where are you?
bottlenecck said:
The reason they're suggesting it is that the source has been changed, speakers have been changed, the power amp has been swapped for another, the preamp has changed, the room acoustics have changed (I moved house), the speaker position has changed (they're in a differently shaped room), and my listening position has obviously changed due to the previous factors. The problem is exactly the same as before I moved house which, to my mind at least, eliminates the factors you mention.
The common factor in all this is the SMRs that have been used for signal coupling. That's why they're the first to go... starting this thread and soliciting response has nicely steered my thoughts in that direction plus had the added benefit of stimulating some other ideas. I love PFM
Cheers,
Carl
Carl, you mentioned the harshness in relation to volume level, I wonder how tightly these things are linked and whether you play fairly loud, plugging a set of phones into the pres output and having a listen at that point will confirm the front end one way or another and cut the room out of the equation, after that, a quick and simple mod to the power amp is a rectifier/trafo strap mod (assuming the 140 uses a split rectifier with twin CT trafo?) a very juicy mod indeed, just parallel the trafos outputs if there is no voltage between them.
I like the idea of headphones - i think I'll give that a go tonight. I'll hold off on other mods until I track down the source of the problem, though.
One thing I did notice was that reducing the gain in my 62 had a beneficial effect and I want to do this to the starfish, too. A simple swap of R127 from 1K to 2K should do the job.
One thing I did notice was that reducing the gain in my 62 had a beneficial effect and I want to do this to the starfish, too. A simple swap of R127 from 1K to 2K should do the job.
bottleneck
pfm Member
It's my humble opinion that probably your room / speaker positioning / listening position are combining to give you colouration in the upper mids.
There is no doubt that this is something that can be just as apparent in one house as the next.
You would find that using room corrective software (and it's reccomendations in terms of acoustic treatment and speaker location) would do more to correct tonal imbalances than replacing a capacitor or two.
The cost would be similar.
There is no doubt that this is something that can be just as apparent in one house as the next.
You would find that using room corrective software (and it's reccomendations in terms of acoustic treatment and speaker location) would do more to correct tonal imbalances than replacing a capacitor or two.
The cost would be similar.
C
ced
Guest
Ron, at the end of the day you are of course completely right and my ass is smacked for seeking less than perfection.
The suggestion was a quick n dirty bodge to try and identifying the culprit box for starters. Probably will turn out to be the room/speakers in the end, heh.
c
The suggestion was a quick n dirty bodge to try and identifying the culprit box for starters. Probably will turn out to be the room/speakers in the end, heh.
c
Without wishing to state the obvious i would consider two things;
The power amp is running out of headroom or-
Cd sources themselves especially when paired with naim gear can be excessivly forward in nature when the volume control is advanced passed the 9/10 o'clock position!
The power amp is running out of headroom or-
Cd sources themselves especially when paired with naim gear can be excessivly forward in nature when the volume control is advanced passed the 9/10 o'clock position!
Hmm, the clipping thing with the 140 may be worth a thought. Currently I'm regulating the front ends of the NAP boards with VBEs and LM1086 / LM337 reglators which has a voltage drop of roughly 3.5V. This could take the amp into clipping sooner than expected... perhaps I should back out those changes...
...damnation, this diy malarky can become difficult when trying to diagnose things!
I would venture that the problem is not wholly the 140 as I have tried another power amp on there, although both myself and the owner were pretty drunk at the time and my memory of things is slighty fuzzy... we may need to try again
Edit: I forgot to say that I've neither vinyl nor turntable.
...damnation, this diy malarky can become difficult when trying to diagnose things!
I would venture that the problem is not wholly the 140 as I have tried another power amp on there, although both myself and the owner were pretty drunk at the time and my memory of things is slighty fuzzy... we may need to try again
Edit: I forgot to say that I've neither vinyl nor turntable.