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System architecture - which way to go?

M

Markus S

41 - 29
I want to buy a new system. The present arrangement of Heed DT/DA, Quad 34/306 and JBL LSR6332 works just fine, but I still hanker after something a bit better yet.

I have an analogue source that I want to continue to use. What I also need are two digital sources (CD transport and a streamer for Qobuz or whatever; no local data storage), a way to change volume and switch sources, amplification of some sort and speakers.

The conundrum - there's a totally bewildering array of possible permutations for providing all this.

Option 1 - let's call it the Tony L solution: Get a separate box for each function. Buy stuff that holds its value (i.e. used), can be repaired indefinitely and offers a bit of fun.

Option 2 - let's call it the Keith solution: Have as many functions as possible in the speakers (Grimm, Kii, AVI, to name some names that readers of this forum may be familiar with), leaving only the sources as separate boxes. Probably means having to throw away the speakers at some point as they will probably follow the computer business model and get outdated/be no longer supported.

Option 3 - any number of solutions between the extremes, i.e preamps or integrated amps with integrated dacs or streamers, allowing for both active and passive speakers.

Which option do you prefer and why?
 
Less switching on and off in option 2, music becomes even more accessible to not only you but the entire family, once you have explained to the kids that '0 ' on the remote is extremely loud !
Keith.
 
Purite Audio said:
Less switching on and off in option 2, music becomes even more accessible to not only you but the entire family, once you have explained to the kids that '0 ' on the remote is extremely loud !
Keith.
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Indeedy so!. This no doubt confuses a lot of people where the traditional volume goes from zero upwards.

The Quad 34 has some serious design flaws so I am reliably informed. I would be inclined to start the ball rolling by getting rid of the 34 and the Heed stuff and replace them by one box. A s/h Weiss DAC 202. Then take it from there. You can see a piccy of my setup in the floor thread.

Cheers,

DV
 
Egad, I'm torn on this one and can see myself effectively having a pile of kit in storage so I can reconfigure as the whim takes me.

Currently I'm rocking a digital only system (TV & Mac Mini as sources) and if I was going to stay this way, I'd definitely go option 2, only perhaps with something like an integrated amp and DAC from Peachtree, as I like to swap speakers and the elegance of the low box count approach appeals. With Vinyl, you've already bought into a pile of boxes, so reducing them elsewhere doesn't make a chuff of difference, so you may as well go all out.
 
Hi Markus

I would go for option 1.

1. First of all, a kid of six can understand it.

2. It is effectively free hifi. Buy today at say a thousand euro / pound and sell tomorrow at a similar price.

3. It is dirt cheap. Even Naim gear is nowhere as expensive as it was.

4. It does sound good.

5. There are literally millions of CDs and records around which will outlast you.

6. If it goes wrong, there are plenty of teckies around to put it right but it tends to last forever anyway.

The down side is that it is and does look dated, so your partner needs to be happy with it. You also need a good size room to cater for two big speakers and a rack for the six or seven boxes you will collect. large TVs make this more difficult.

Also it has to fit in with your house and not dominate it. In other words, a high WAF. There is plenty of tat being advertised as immaculate and it took me half a dozen visits before I bought a mint pair of briks that sounded good.

Regards

Mick

PS I have a NAC 52 and as well as having a TT, CDP and a tuner, so I could easily buy a Naim unitiqute if I so wanted.

PPS By buying "legacy" stuff, you tend to deal with nice people. If you buy via a dealer, most of them are not very nice at all.
 
Interesting, as in fact I am sitting on similar thoughts at present.
I don't know if the same, bc my setup consists of thoughts of having a digital 3 way crossover incl. room correction in the PRE, driving 3 NCC200 directly.

That's good so far for digital source as I can go digital from DAC to Pre and convert to analogue only 1 time before the amps.

Further thoughts involve a good transport & a seperate good dac (not the latest most expensive, but the vfm winner)
My thought: Good transport will stay good for a long time, the dacs become better quickly, older models becoming cheaper & loose value a lot.
So 2 boxes here defo, for me.

My dilemma the moment is I have a good analogue source, too.
So a digital pre incl. crossover would mean converting analogue source into digital and back to analogue, which I'm not sure is good.

It may temporarily end up in a digital setup of:
transport-dac-digital pre incl. digital XO => AMPS
and second front end:
deck-phono pre-analoge pre- analogue Xover=> AMPS
to see how this works out.

In short, Option 1, the Tony L solution is mine.

I feel I'll have to build some speakers at some point once my amps are finished,
so option2 is not for me & as I like them active, option 3 is out, too.. :)
 
Markus S said:
Which option do you prefer and why?
Click to expand...

I'm actually rather more interested in your perspective! Given you've had kit at the very top-end of option 1 (Altec VOTT, Verdier, Shindo etc) through to the very "sensible" (say the 34/306/JBLs) and have also as a reviewer heard many different things what 'feels right' to you? Do you miss the huge VOTT rig?

FWIW I'm of the firm belief now that I need at least two systems as I'm just too hooked on a big room filling thing and also a very up close and personal extreme near-field thing. I could never do without something like my big Tannoys and something like my JR149s. I'm very 'Japanese audiophile' in that respect, though that's not really an option 1, 2 or 3 thing, it could I guess be done with say huge ATCs and Devialet Phantoms should one wish.
 
If I were starting afresh? Great front-end and top-end cans. Keep it simple.
 
Part of the fun in this hobby is trying different schools of thought along the way and building a great system over time, I do however realise for some they are not interested in this aspect so much and just want the best music reproduction, the other prohibiting factor is the financial cost.

I think of the money I’ve spent over the years tinkering, having a ‘final system’ I was aiming for and then look at my system now, the best it has ever been and think how simple it is and wonder why I didn’t just go this route from the start and save my self a lot of money and bother.

But then I think I’d probably miss out messing around with valves, T-amps and the like. If I had the money I’d have a dedicated room full of all sorts of speakers, horns, panels, mini monitors etc., the reality is I don’t and as such if I were starting out now with the knowledge I’ve picked up along with the way I go for a simple system as I have now of a DAC / pre into actives.
 
All three are good options. I'm a bit like Tony inasmuch as I like to have a couple of different set-ups. At the moment it's:

A: passive two-way speakers, and then all the electronics together in one shiny box.

B: everything in the box with the (three and a half-way) speakers, except for an outboard streamer.

C: semi-active panel speakers with extra active subs, power amp, a one-box pre+DAC, and an outboard streamer, plus a TT.

I enjoy all of them. B was by far the cheapest. A and C cost about the same (mostly bought s/h). C is the bestest.
 
As a reviewer (cue Tony's post), I'd imagine that you'd have had exposure to a lot of diverse kit, including valves and panel speakers.

Ergo, you could decide what type of amplification you fancy (valved, s/s, pre-power or integrated) and what kind of speakers suit your musical tastes and room size. Get those two interconnected areas right and add the sources to suit.

Personally I'd get dedicated mains installed, if feasible; a low cost improvement compared to the price of reasonable kit.
 
You want as many boxes as physically possible spread out so they take up as much room as possible - at least you can see where the money has gone (10 boxes, not including speakers or turntable, just to play a record :)).
 
Get a modern top quality receiver. The have streaming, Bluetooth, phono input, the lot...and are often controlled with apps in smartphones
 
Markus S said:
It'll be a few daysbefore I find the time to collect my thoughts about that, very busy currently.
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IIRC one reason the huge VOTTs, tubes and big Verdier TT etc went were due to the then recent acquisition of small and potentially prying hands. Are said hands now old enough to reconsider hot tubes etc again? FWIW if kids are still a factor I'd be very tempted by proper big horns as there are no visible cones or domes on show, nothing to push in and damage and they are way, way too heavy to ever topple over - one could probably fire children at a pair of KHorns, La Scalas, Belles, various Altecs etc via a fairly high powered trebuchet without damaging the speakers in the slightest. The worst I've experienced is the neighbour's cat has been known to jump into the back of my La Scalas where the back of the horns and crossovers go. A bit of strategically placed rolled-up bubble-wrap and it can no longer do so!
 
YNWOAN said:
You want as many boxes as physically possible spread out so they take up as much room as possible - at least you can see where the money has gone (10 boxes, not including speakers or turntable, just to play a record :)).
Click to expand...

:D

Sounds like me. But I can never settle with a single system - back in the UK I had three systems inc one in the kitchen that had separates:p

Now in Aus, I'm tamed but only slightly. Still a multi-box Option 1 with Linn, ATC, Krell and Focal for the main room. An Arcam Solo plus Minidisc in the bedroom (with decent little Totem stand mounts) and I've just bought a retro 1980 Beosytem (radio and amp only with original Beovox mini speakers) as nostalgia for the study :)

Not a streamer in sight and no plans to get one. Plus I have a very understanding wife!

Markus - you need to sort yourself out! I've not heard streamers so I've no idea how they compare sound wise alongside top T/Ts, CDs, but if they are fabulous and you want neat and tidy that is the way to go. But if you don't mind boxes, wires, looking ugly then you can't beat the fun of a good few separates

Perhaps more importantly, if you are a reviewer, do you not get a frequent itch when you hear something new and different? I suspect you're a bit stuck once you've decided on a 1-2 box solution.....
 
You could do what I did and just buy random stuff on a whim and hope it all works. Let's face it, that's probably what 90% of pfmers do anyway.
 
Yes, that is my experience of what most people do (no wonder it is one shade of average after another).
 
As it happens I am in a comparable situation, with a system that currently could go either way - 1.) more minimalistic, with just a streamer & a PreDAC into active speakers, and with the TT possibly left on the shelf, or 2.) back to embracing the legacy approach with a streamer > DAC > pre amp > power amp into passive speakers, combined with a nice vintage tuner and the TT up and running.

I should have known that getting the Accuphase pre and then the DAC would send me on a slippery slope, and I have been lusting after a class A Accuphase power amp for quite some time!

System 2.) is probably not the best VFM in the era of active speakers and PreDACs, but a system that will give me a warm fuzzy feeling and a big grin every time I switch it on and listen to the soft klicking of relays.

OTOH, as a minimalist lifestyle is increasingly important to me, having a system that would fit on a book shelf (not the speakers obviously) such as approach 1.) also has its appeal, even though I would miss some of the features the Acc offers, and I might miss the TT and the tuner.

Argh! Decisions, decisions. Markus, do let us know how you get on!


Samuel.
 
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