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System Advice - next move? If no budget...if tight budget...

jamesd

jamesd

pfm Member
recently picked up some Vienna Acoustic Bach Grands as outlined here and they've been a revelation for me.

I'd love to hear more on these speakers, but I was hoping I could open the thread up to some personal system advice:

My setup as it stands right now consists of the following components:

Speakers: Vienna Bach Grands
Analog: Rega P3/AT440MLa/Parasound zPhono
Digital: Apple Airport Express (no external DAC)
Amp: NAD C320BEE

I've discovered/decided that imaging and an expansive soundstage is important to me (sorry flat-earthers). I've discovered that I value clarity and focus more than I thought I did. I've discovered I like grip/strength/control. Finally, I've discovered that I value what I can only describe as a "natural" sounds...I don't like overly hot or tipped up upper frequencies.

I feel like these speakers do all of these things, but I also feel they're being held back and there's more potential waiting to be unlocked.

My question is: Looking at my system and assuming I've taken care of the DAC hole (with something like a dacmagic) and that the speakers are here to stay, what move would you make next to improve system, if budget were not a concern? What would move would you make for maximum impact towards my sound preferences for the least amount of money?

Thanks for any thoughts and advice!
 
Barry, thanks for the reply.

A member here suggested valves as well. Everything I've read on these speakers suggests the way to go is a high current amp with a high damping factor. I have neither here to try. Any thoughts on why you think valves would be a good step forward here?
 
How do I get that life/imaging/breath/texture of tubes with the authority/grip/slam/start and stop control of good SS?
 
Those speakers were £2000 new! I am afraid you are under gunned in all departments, better get saving:D
 
jamesd said:
How do I get that life/imaging/breath/texture of tubes with the authority/grip/slam/start and stop control of good SS?
Click to expand...
You need a big 50wpc or more valve amp.
I suggest you look out for a second hand Audio Research preamp and power amp. An SP6 or SP8 preamp can be got for about £600 and a D70 or similar will set you back about the same, or maybe a bit more. Not cheap but not ridiculous either and you will then have the heart of a proper high end system and an excellent match for your speakers. Set aside money for new valves and you are well on the way to sonic Nirvana.
 
muzzer said:
Those speakers were £2000 new! I am afraid you are under gunned in all departments, better get saving:D
Click to expand...

Muzzer, I am not ashamed to say that I got the pair for $400 bucks open box at Best Buy. 3 years at 0% interest financing, no less. I wasnt in the market for new speakers, but the deal seemed too good to pass up. I've been through a bunch of speakers and the Vienna's surprised me.

I believe Sumiko, their distributor in the US, is ending their relationship with Magnolia (the higher end store inside of a store in Best Buy), so we'll probably be seeing a lot of good deals on the brand in the near future.

I'll admit, the Vienna brand didn't stand out to me as something I'd be interested in because of their affiliation with the big chain store, but because of this experience, I imagine that the next time I upgrade, their line will be the first place I look.
 
Batty said:
Try a Copland hybrid integrated.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not familiar with the brand. As far as hybrid integrateds go, I'm aware of Unico, Jolida (who is 30 mins down the road from me) and Peachtree.
 
barrymidd said:
You need a big 50wpc or more valve amp.
I suggest you look out for a second hand Audio Research preamp and power amp. An SP6 or SP8 preamp can be got for about £600 and a D70 or similar will set you back about the same, or maybe a bit more. Not cheap but not ridiculous either and you will then have the heart of a proper high end system and an excellent match for your speakers. Set aside money for new valves and you are well on the way to sonic Nirvana.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips. Always respected the brand and I am looking to make a significant vertical step instead of a lateral step...even if that means waiting longer to do so.
 
Barry, may I ask what about the ARC makes you think it would be a good match for the Bach's? Thanks in advance.
 
jamesd said:
Barry, may I ask what about the ARC makes you think it would be a good match for the Bach's? Thanks in advance.
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The sheer grip that ARC amps have always brings out all of what the speakers have to offer. They give fantastic resolution, holographic imaging and soundstaging, but still keep everything fluid - and they boogy!
 
The 320BEE is by no means a bad amp, and probably one of the few budget ones that can cut it with expensive speakers.

The Supernait is worth a look - fine amp, enough power, has a built-in DAC.
 
Thanks for the replies.

So a new amp would make the most difference toward achieving the sound I've described?
 
Do you use mainly digital or analogue?

If you use a lot of lossless digital, a DAC and better amplification could both be on your shopping list. How much $ do you have to play with? Add this to the S/H value of the NAD and see what you can get. Unless you already have $600 or so, I would have thought that valves were out of the running.

Zillions of options even just around amps.

Base level, a robust 70's/80's/90's Brit Integrated might be worth a try. Exposure, Naim Nait, Linn, Inca Tech Claymore etc.

Quite a bit more expensive; a half-decent s/h Pre-amp (Exposure, Linn, Cyrus, Meridian etc) with a phono section and a Leak Stereo 20 (Transcendental 10wpc vintage valve amp, about 600GBP), adding a Cambridge Audio Dacmagic later, if required?
 
foxwelljsly said:
Do you use mainly digital or analogue?

If you use a lot of lossless digital, a DAC and better amplification could both be on your shopping list. How much $ do you have to play with? Add this to the S/H value of the NAD and see what you can get. Unless you already have $600 or so, I would have thought that valves were out of the running.
Click to expand...

I'm about 50/50 digital/analog. Digital is usually just out of convenience. The only problem with my digital is most albums are lowish-bitrate stuff that I sample. I buy a lot of vinyl...digital is usually just to sample things or a way to listen to music from another room, while cooking, etc.

I have no money to play with at the moment. What I was hoping to get from this thread is a few options to start researching and start putting away money here and there for a purchase down the road. I've made lateral steps over the past few years and with this new speaker purchase, I'd prefer to save up and make a vertical purchase, even if it's further down the road than I'd like.
 
approx £800-£850 gets you a used Musical Fidelity A5 integrated (250 watts @ 8 Ohms)

I have not heard your speakers, and am guessing that the Musical Fidelity will be a good match?

have connected an A5 to my system and was very impressed
 
jamesd said:
How do I get that life/imaging/breath/texture of tubes with the authority/grip/slam/start and stop control of good SS?
Click to expand...

Simple. Get (or make via DIY) a speaker that crosses over somewhere between 200hz and 1200hz. Preferably one where you can easily get at or by-pass the bass to midrange crossover. Then actively bi-amp. SS for the bass, valves for the midrange and treble.

Or get high efficiency speakers with a valve friendly impedance curve with decent bass and use a valve amp full range. Sadly these speakers tend to be larger than the rather inappropriately name Bach Grands. It's Hoffman's Iron Law: you can have bass extension, high efficiency, small size. Pick any 2.



If you want to keep the Vienna speakers, and are looking for a cheap upgrade, buy a Lenco tt for £50 - to which you could add a decent budget arm such as a Rega.
 
lindsayt said:
Simple. Get (or make via DIY) a speaker that crosses over somewhere between 200hz and 1200hz. Preferably one where you can easily get at or by-pass the bass to midrange crossover. Then actively bi-amp. SS for the bass, valves for the midrange and treble.

Or get high efficiency speakers with a valve friendly impedance curve with decent bass and use a valve amp full range. Sadly these speakers tend to be larger than the rather inappropriately name Bach Grands. It's Hoffman's Iron Law: you can have bass extension, high efficiency, small size. Pick any 2.



If you want to keep the Vienna speakers, and are looking for a cheap upgrade, buy a Lenco tt for £50 - to which you could add a decent budget arm such as a Rega.
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice. The Vienna's are the best speaker I've had in my system and I've been through a lot. They offer more of these qualities I'm looking for than anything else I've had in my system.
 
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