Suitable cartridge for a QED R232 Turntable?

[Chaggy78]

Hi Guys, I have just purchased a QED R232 belt drive turntable and was wondering if anyone can advise me on a cartridge that would be suitable for the tonearm? The arm is similar to a Helius Scorpio but is not identical so I am not sure what compliance the cartridge would need to be.
Any help and advice would be great thanks.

 

[Mr Pig]

I'd go with an Audio techica MM. The deck was originally speced with a Goldring MM so an AT will be fine.

 

[Craig B]

Haven't seen an R232 for decades.

ISTR the arm having a spacer tube over the thread end stub that determined the correct downforce for the supplied OEM Goldring Epic (original version) MM cartridge. This spacer can be removed such that other cartridges of different mass can be balanced. Once balanced, 1/4 turn of the weight equates to 0.1g of downforce (i.e. Helius style fine thread on end stub).

The anti-skating is a lever and weight type with the weight factory positioned for the Goldring Epic (likely set to coincide with 2.0g VTF, as recommended range was 1.5 to 2.5g with 2.0g as nominal).

 

[Chaggy78]

Thanks for the replies and thank you for the info Craig. Do you have any idea about cartridge compliance for the arm?

 

[Craig B]

Thanks for the replies and thank you for the info Craig. Do you have any idea about cartridge compliance for the arm?

I doubt you'll have any issues here. Any decent MM should track fine.

Here's an interesting bit of history regarding these decks and tonearm from one post member Bobeee (likely one Robert Abraham) from over on Audiokarma.org from Dec, 2020...

"I am a little late replying to this thread, but as i have something of an inside track on the QED R232 & R232EN, i thought that i should correct a few things. Firstly spn_ai you have found yourself a very rare turntable. Only a few 'fun colour' turntables were ever manufactured, the others were blue and red. Now the facts. The tone arm was indeed initially designed by Helius commission by QED. QED not only manufactured the arm, but also had to modify the original design to correct a serious fault which meant that the arm did not track the disc properly. This involved changing one of the arm parts to a conical design to overcome this problem. Once this was done and the arm was set-up properly, it really worked very well. The turntable was designed as an integrated unit using a Goldring cartridge with a custom designed stylus. Contrary to one of the contributors, the R232EN 'Electronic; version did not feature a DC motor, but the same AC motor which was driven by a crystal controlled circuit. Audionote had no involvement in this arm whatsoever. Reviews of the day were very favourable when comparing the EN version (in particular) to the Rega turntable. The 'EN' board was our own in-house design and the rest of the turntable was a bit of a mixture. Part commissioned, part modified. How do I know this? I was MD of QED Audio Products ltd."​

 

[cobbers]

Had an R232 about 20 years ago and ran it with no problems with various cartridges.

 

[Chaggy78]

Excellent advice thanks again everyone. I am currently repairing a couple of the cartridge tags on the arm then will try to get a cartridge to test it out I am quite excited

 

[Craig B]

Just FYI, the factory fitted cartridge was a Goldring Epic, seen here on an undeserving Dual CS 514. Epic was a popular recommendation in Hi-Fi Answers back in the 80s. No doubt, the then owner of this Dual ran out and bought one as misguided upgrade over the supplied Dual DMS 239 (an OEM Ortofon) after having had a glance through HFA down at W. H. Smiths & Son.

 

[Chaggy78]

Thanks for the info Craig very interesting. I was wondering how will I set the anti-skate when I get a new cartridge using the lever and weight?

 

[Craig B]

Thanks for the info Craig very interesting. I was wondering how will I set the anti-skate when I get a new cartridge using the lever and weight?

You're welcome, Chaggy.

I suspect that what Helius used to suggest within their manuals should suffice here. They described setting VTF to the recommended value, then with the AS weight half-way along, listen out for distortion in either channel. Distortion in the Rch is indicative of insufficient AS (i.e. tracking pressure too low on RH groove wall due to inward skating), whereas, distortion in the Lch indicates excessive AS (i.e. tracking pressure too low on LH groove wall due to too much outward force). If you happen to have a test record with tracking test tracks then this can be used to expedite matters, just don't go overboard trying to conquer the highest recording level track(s) as AS (and VTF) may well end up being too high for normal usage. One can expedite the onset of distortion in either channel by backing off VTF slightly until mistracking is more noticeable, then once optimal AS 'balance' is set, set VTF back to the recommended value.

 

[Chaggy78]

Awesome thank you Craig that is very helpful. I was also wondering if there is an alignment protractor for this arm I can use to align the cartridge?

 

[Craig B]

Awesome thank you Craig that is very helpful. I was also wondering if there is an alignment protractor for this arm I can use to align the cartridge?

Helius were designed to Linn geometry so 65/120mm (inner/outer null) would be close enough. You can download a Helius protractor in .pdf from vinylengine, although the Linn one might be persuaded to print to scale better.

You'll know that the geometry is the same should you be successful in getting both the headshell and cartridge body square to the grid lines at the inner null point (i.e. indicates that overhang and offset match Helius/Linn). Regardless, overhang is specified at the same 18mm, so if you simply get the tip 18mm past record spindle center, and the cartridge body square in the headshell, then all will be well.

 

[Chaggy78]

Thanks so much for the help and advice Craig it is greatly appreciated. I do have a protractor for a Helius Aureus tonearm that I used to own but think that it may be different to other Helius arm protractors. I can't seem to find the other Helius protractors on vinyl engine I don't suppose you can provide a link please if you would not mind? Thanks so much.

 

[Chaggy78]

Haven't seen an R232 for decades.

ISTR the arm having a spacer tube over the thread end stub that determined the correct downforce for the supplied OEM Goldring Epic (original version) MM cartridge. This spacer can be removed such that other cartridges of different mass can be balanced. Once balanced, 1/4 turn of the weight equates to 0.1g of downforce (i.e. Helius style fine thread on end stub).

The anti-skating is a lever and weight type with the weight factory positioned for the Goldring Epic (likely set to coincide with 2.0g VTF, as recommended range was 1.5 to 2.5g with 2.0g as nominal).

Hi Craig I was wondering if you know how to remove the spacer tube on the end thread so I can use different cartridges? I tried turning it but it will not move. Thanks again.

 

[Craig B]

Hi Craig I was wondering if you know how to remove the spacer tube on the end thread so I can use different cartridges? I tried turning it but it will not move. Thanks again.

Sorry Chaggy, I must have missed your prior question from back in June.

WRT to protractors, you might have better luck with the Linn one (or a third party printable type to Linn geometry). Just make sure to get the scale correct when printing (i.e. print, measure the critical dimensions, adjust print scale, reprint, measure, repeat as necessary). Vinyl Engine have plenty of free printable options, listed under Tools, Cartridge Alignment Protractors.

As to removing the counterweight spacer, I've never worked on one of these so I'd first make sure that there isn't a set screw present, otherwise, there is always the possibility that some thread locker may have been used, or a bit of corrosion is holding things fast. Either way, I'd remove the arm from the deck and then attempt to protect the bearings by holding only the exposed threaded end of the stub tightly whilst attempting to unscrew the spacer. I suggest this as one who had their Helius Aureus Gold nearly fall to bits whilst attempting to adjust the counterweight.

BTW, a quick Google image search for 'qed r232 tonearm' shows one or two of these with the spacer still present and a few without, so it is possible, just likely to be a bit stubborn after all of these years.

 

[Chaggy78]

Hi Craig thanks for your reply and sorry it has been a while since I could reply. I have used a Linn protractor and it worked perfectly. The only other issue I have to solve now is that the counter weight is quite loose when on the thread. It does not wobble or move but when setting the tracking force it is very easy to knock it slightly and the setting will be wrong. The weight needs to be tighter on the thread but not sure how I can achieve this? Any help would be great thanks.

 

[Craig B]

Hi Craig thanks for your reply and sorry it has been a while since I could reply. I have used a Linn protractor and it worked perfectly. The only other issue I have to solve now is that the counter weight is quite loose when on the thread. It does not wobble or move but when setting the tracking force it is very easy to knock it slightly and the setting will be wrong. The weight needs to be tighter on the thread but not sure how I can achieve this? Any help would be great thanks.

No worries, Chaggy. I have experienced this very thing with screw on counterweights over the years. One solution is a tiny dab of plumber's grease. This won't necessarily make things tighter but should make the weight less sensitive to shifting. Best application method is to put a small dab on the threaded end stub just aft of where you know the weight will end up for your arm balanced position and then run the weight up through this to roughly your VTF set position. Any excess either side of the weight can be wiped off via following the thread groove with a light cloth over finger nail, or cloth over a bit of card should your nails be too short and/or you can't get access between weight and arm carrier at the front. Just don't let any grease get into the arm bearings! Less is more here.

 

[stevec67]

Hi Craig thanks for your reply and sorry it has been a while since I could reply. I have used a Linn protractor and it worked perfectly. The only other issue I have to solve now is that the counter weight is quite loose when on the thread. It does not wobble or move but when setting the tracking force it is very easy to knock it slightly and the setting will be wrong. The weight needs to be tighter on the thread but not sure how I can achieve this? Any help would be great thanks.

If Craig's suggestion doesn't work you could try wrapping a length of sewing thread around the threaded part of the arm before screwing on the weight, this will introduce the necessary friction. You might need to experiment with less/more to make it work.
As for cartridge choice, with most of the decks of this type you don't go wrong with a standard issue high compliance MM. AT95 family, Goldring MM, Ortofon, the usual suspects. Set them to the normal 1.75 or 2g weight with a standard protractor, that's good enough and they just work.

 

[Chaggy78]

Hi guys thanks so much for your replies. I have sorted the counter weight issue by using some plumbers grease as Craig suggested it worked well. I am currently using an old Dynavector Ultimo 20B with the arm and it sounds superb tracking at 1.5g.
My nest issue is setting the anti-skate as there is no marking on it to let me know how much anti-skate is being applied.
Thanks again everyone.

 

[Jason P]

Hi guys thanks so much for your replies. I have sorted the counter weight issue by using some plumbers grease as Craig suggested it worked well. I am currently using an old Dynavector Ultimo 20B with the arm and it sounds superb tracking at 1.5g.
My nest issue is setting the anti-skate as there is no marking on it to let me know how much anti-skate is being applied.
Thanks again everyone.

If you've any albums with a blank side (some doubles and 12" singles have this) you can use that to set antiskate - gently lowering the stylus in to the middle of the record and observing movement in or out will determine what you need to alter so it remains static. Be ready to lift the arm if it starts speeding to one side or another though! Some test records have a blank side for this very reason.