advertisement


Subtly Jawdropping - Tannoy Joy

Steven Toy said:
Communicating with black and white thinkers is hard but I'll give it a go ;)
Click to expand...

Communicating with people who base their opinions on faith and inner conviction is hard, but I'll give it a go ;):

Tone controls of any description will most likely rob some of that coherence and musical info.
Click to expand...

The control console in a studio must remove *sooooo* much coherence an musical info...
 
Julf said:
Communicating with people who base their opinions on faith and inner conviction is hard, but I'll give it a go ;):



The control console in a studio must remove *sooooo* much coherence an musical info...
Click to expand...

So why rob even more at home?

We agree that some recordings are better than others.

My opinions are based on subjective hands-on listening. No belief, no conviction and with the acknowledgement of an element of risk. I can live with the uncertainty.
 
I'm stuck on a 2 day conference at The Belfry with an iPod and an X mini golf ball sized speaker for company. Sounds fantastic on 2 bottles of 8% cider! And no, I don't play golf....
 
Steven Toy said:
So why rob even more at home?
Click to expand...

To compensate for defects in recordings, and to accommodate different tastes. maybe?

We agree that some recordings are better than others.
Click to expand...

Right.

My opinions are based on subjective hands-on listening. No belief, no conviction and with the acknowledgement of an element of risk. I can live with the uncertainty.
Click to expand...

But your view is that "tone controls of any description will most likely rob some of that coherence and musical info", but tube amps, vinyl turntable setups and speakers don't do the same?
 
Vital, perhaps you could use the track that the guys used, with the three female singers for Boogaloo 2?

Assuming your ATCs are resolving enough then it might be an idea to see if you can also notice the differences between DACs using that track. Getting an Mdac Toy would be good too. Steven might even loan you his :)

Just a suggestion.
 
Steven, what is the full system then? I thought you were an audio lab cad at the front but has that changed? What's the full tug?
 
Ginger said:
Steven, what is the full system then? I thought you were an audio lab cad at the front but has that changed? What's the full tug?
Click to expand...

Audiolab became Lakewest. JohnW/Lakewest was the designer of both the Audiolab MDAC and the CDQ that I had before the Lakewest MDAC L3 Toy that I use.

The full system is as follows:

Rega Apollo R CD player used as a CD transport

Lakewest MDAC L3 Toy

Tube Distinctions Grounded Grid valve pre with offboard linear PSU

Tube Distinctions Copper amp - 40 Watts of Class A push-pull with KT120 output valves.

Tannoy Turnberry SE speakers.

Mark Grant G2000 HD analogue interconnects with WBT nextgen 0110 ag connectors

Mark Grant Oyaide digital coax interconnect with WBT nextgen 0110 ag connectors

Mark Grant DSP 2.5 mains leads

Reterminated Sterling Black Mamba speaker cables

CoherentSystems jumper leads

Dedicated radial circuit with Memera consumer unit

MusicWorks Reflex mains block modified by Mark Grant with Furukawa wiring

MusicWorks ReVo 3 supports

MusicWorks Response Minis under PSUs and mains block

MusicWorks ReBounds (aka Cat Piss deflectors)

MusicWorks PEEK isolators under CD transport

MusicWorks PEEK plug isolator
 
Julf said:
To compensate for defects in recordings, and to accommodate different tastes. maybe?



Right.



But your view is that "tone controls of any description will most likely rob some of that coherence and musical info", but tube amps, vinyl turntable setups and speakers don't do the same?
Click to expand...

A tube amp in a well optimised circuit is about as coherent as it gets even if measured (benign) distortion figures don't look terribly impressive and frequency response mirrors that of the speaker impedance load.

With the amp I use you can increase the overall negative feedback on each channel for a more linear FR but this comes at the expense of dynamics, immediacy*, texture* and openness*

*Entirely subjective.
 
"frequency response mirrors thst of the speaker impedance load."

What do you mean? Your amplifier matches your speakers? How did that happen?
 
They share each other's undies
It happens after a while when you cannot be borhered to separate them from the dryer
Generally an ok sign
 
Blzebub said:
"frequency response mirrors thst of the speaker impedance load."

What do you mean? Your amplifier matches your speakers? How did that happen?
Click to expand...

"Mirrors" in this case means "does the exact opposite" as mirrors, er, do.

It does subjectively but any valve amp with low feedback will not increase power as impedance dips so the FR will reflect the impedance curve of the speakers, so I'm told.

Robert and Simon did some graphs last year after they visited. Fortunately there is a "treble energy" adjustment facility on the Tannoys. As luck would have it, the requisite + 3dB setting is the one without a resistor in line.
 
Steven Toy said:
Fortunately there is a "treble energy" adjustment facility on the Tannoys. As luck would have it, the requisite + 3dB setting is the one without a resistor in line.
Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that they were on +3dB, thought to myself, "shouldn't there be some cut?". That +3dB might account to what I consider the "upfront" nature of your system ?
 
Peter Stockwell said:
Yes, I saw that they were on +3dB, thought to myself, "shouldn't there be some cut?". That +3dB might account to what I consider the "upfront" nature of your system ?
Click to expand...

Have a look at this thread, especially the graphs on page 2

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138026

The treble lift by 3dB offsets roll off above 10 KHz. The alternative is to increase global feedback using the adjusters at the rear of the amp. I prefer lower feedback with treble lift. Remember that the 3 dB lift is above 10 KHz. The forwardness is in the 2 to 6 KHz region and we can perceptually ameliorate this by increasing output above this region.
 
Steven Toy said:
Have a look at this thread, especially the graphs on page 2

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138026

The treble lift by 3dB offsets roll off above 10 KHz. The alternative is to increase global feedback using the adjusters at the rear of the amp. I prefer lower feedback with treble lift. Remember that the 3 dB lift is above 10 KHz. The forwardness is in the 2 to 6 KHz region and we can perceptually ameliorate this by increasing output above this region.
Click to expand...

Had a look over the thread in question, and have extracted these remarks from Robert's essay.

Robert said:
- This particular model of Tannoy has a measured and reasonably broad peak of about 6-7dB centred at 700-800Hz as you can see below. This was not a room issue since we measured it both in far-field at the listening position and at a 50cm distance from each DC driver - on both loudspeakers. So it's intrinsic to the design and part of the character for this particular model. It's effect is to push forward the mid sounds within a mix.

- The in-room response is rather skewed and tilted downward. Again you can see this from the room plot. We took this using the Tannoy standard crossover setting with the top end roll-off control set flat. It's much better when set to max, which brings up the response after around 8khz by 3dB. We used this setting for the rest of the day and this is important because it helps balance the identified peak lower down. Making the speaker a little brighter at the very top actually makes it sound a little less forward. Think about it.

- EQ. Finally we tried some EQ to 'knock-out' the peak. Steve wasn't keen on this feeling that it flattened the sound and took away some of the life. It was certainly the most dramatic difference but then it should be since it alters the sound balance within the room and changes the character of the Tannoy mid. Simon and I thought it made things sound closer to what we'd expect to hear and it calmed-down the forwardness and brashness.
I can understand how this might sound less lively and flatter initially, but would recommend that when making such a change (quite a large one) the ears are given a few days to adjust to the new balance. Much in the same way as A/Bing very differently balanced loudspeakers is very unreliable.
Click to expand...

Also this from Simon :

Tenson said:
There was a slightly aggressive sound and I think it was mainly down to two things, apart from the recording itself. Firstly the high output impedance of Steve's amp essentially raises the response of the speaker in the upper midrange while reducing the top treble. Secondly there is the 800Hz peak from the speaker.

Placing some acoustic foam behind the listening seat helped de-muddle things a bit, but it wasn't the main cause of the aggressive sound as far as I could tell.

That said, I think part of what Steve likes in his system is the forward presentation for the life and energy it gives. On some recordings this is great, but on others it also adds a hard edge to the sound. I don't think the hard edge can be removed without also removing some of the liveliness he likes.
Click to expand...

I agree with Robert & Simon, for my taste Steve's system is too forward, and Steve does listen too loud, at his normal listening level I'm physically uncomfortable. I always have to knock the volume down when at his place.

He's lucky not have bass bump issues, but I think there's bass re-enforcement at the listening position, the sofa about 80cm out from the wall would be better, to my ears. It's not practical given that the room is probably not much more than 15 sq metres, and the system takes up a a quarter of that.

To be honest, Steven system is a reference for what can be acheived in terms of musical enjoyment through a hifi system. I think Rob and Simon's point about notching the peak at 800Hz is worth thinking about.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top