beammeup
pfm Member
Good luck with that! They are good routers. I was going to offer one of these for you too - but I see you have one already!
I would be interested if your latency is better with the Draytek at the helm.
Streaming: Qobuz, DLNA, UPnP etc
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
I would be interested if your latency is better with the Draytek at the helm.
Tony L
Administrator
That is the whole point of the experiment. I’m working on the assumption that the latency is cumulative, so all I can attack is any issues present on my own network as I’ve already signed up to a very fast broadband service. The Smart Hub Two is demonstrably poor from a latency perspective, actually worse than the preceding version, so removing it from the equation has to be a win to some degree. Hopefully a significant one, though maybe not. I doubt I’ll be able to stop drops entirely, but any improvement is obviously an improvement.
The DrayTek is overkill for my needs, but it has hardware acceleration, QoS and many other useful features. I talked myself into spending rather more than I wanted to, but it just seems to offer more of use and with less compromise to the home or gaming alternatives. Everything else I was looking at was only £50-100 cheaper and had something missing I wanted (too few ports, no QoS, relied on subscription features or snooping etc).
I just hope it is reliable as I want a good decade out if it! With all such expenses I work on a ‘total cost of ownership’ basis so don’t mind paying for good stuff that remains useful for longer.
bencat
Amplifier Destroyer par excellence
Okay this has been going on at the same time as adding to this thread and for many it will be just not possible which is fine but I am going to make the details available and then leave it to individuals to either give it a try it not . On another site some Ethernet cables were talked about and comments made that they sounded better than others . Now pretty normal for audiophile sites but the difference this time was these are not boutique expensive items . Ugreen CAT7 braided round cables were the ones available on Amazon for £5.24 a meter cable . Given the low cost decided to try them and ordered two one between router and Switch and one between switch and server . Well they surprised me they did indeed in my system sound better . So today I have used the same cable with each player and this sounds even better quieter and the music is more textured . Now I fully accept this may be me fooling myself but it works . Best of all the cost is not high and even if for you in your system it does nothing you still have a well made Ethernet cable for your money . If anyone does try this add your thoughts good , bad or indifferent .
lordsummit
Moderator
If you like Qobuz, and like the sound of the Chord, why not build a Pi? You could add a digital out board and get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately you can’t use Qobuz natively on Volumio for free, but I’m sure other solutions are available. I sort of see what you’re up to, but £100 on a Pi, a case and a digital out board would have been a lot cheaper than new broadband and a router!!
Tony L
Administrator
Basically there is no point. The Poly/Mojo does that all rather neater and works reliably as-is. It really is very good indeed. It does what the Pi does, but in a pocketable format.
The DSX only has one coax input, and the Rega CD transport needs that. The whole point of the DSX is it is a DLNA player. If I find, after everything, I just can’t get it to run solidly with Qobuz I’ll just move it on to someone who wants an amazing network player, buy another DAC for the Rega, and use the Poly/Mojo as the streaming solution.
I’m incredibly close to getting this to work!
lordsummit
Moderator
I’d forgotten the Poly/Mojo!
TheFlash
Reiki Audio
Which cables did they replace, Andrew?
vacuum_tubes
pfm Member
What is your network setup, given you've said you don't have a large number of devices I fail to see how you will be having latency issues
Tony L
Administrator
I have watched a few YouTube videos from people suggesting such things. I’m an ex-network engineer so have not insignificant skepticism here, but I’m well aware of issues with cat 5 cables and their routing through a building (e.g. many people don’t realise that if you squash, bend sharply or kink it then it will no longer be to data transmission spec) There is a theoretical advantage to screening etc too depending on the environment.
I’m personally not going down this path as the run to the DSX is a long one (15 metres) so would be expensive for a fancy cable, plus I spent several hours routing the current cat5e cable so it has a very nice gentle route without any kinks or pinches. Everything else is very short assuming the DrayTek works well where I want to put it (on top of the Cisco on the wood table pictured upthread). A lot depends on the WiFi performance there, but it can’t be any worse than where the current Plusnet router is which is close to a radiator and a massive old Tektronix valve oscilloscope. I can at least extent/reposition the antennas on the DrayTek if it isn’t happy there. It means I can use very short cat5e leads at that end (1m to the router, 0.3m to the switch). I like this for neatness rather than expecting any benefit.
Tony L
Administrator
Very little; various Apple devices, an Android TV, a Hive hub, a printer, and that is about it. most isn’t on most of the time. I am almost always doing stuff online though. There is very little of the day when I’ve not got about six or seven tabs open doing stuff. I live online. It is what I do. I realise this should *easily* be within spec of the existing system, but the Smart Hub Two is terrible for latency if any upload is in progress, this is well documented, so given that is an aspect I have control over I have decided to rule it out with a much better router. The worst that can happen here is I have a much better router. There isn’t really a downside here!
Tony L
Administrator
The DrayTek is in, password set, WAN working, WiFi setup, firmware updated etc etc. Amazingly easy, took 10-15 minutes tops, but I had done a little reading-up first and had all the info I needed to hand. No faff or frustration, everything just worked, and as far as my kit is concerned just the same as it ever was (same SSID, password etc). The Poly seems happy, which is significant as it is the only item stuck on the 2.4gHz band. Not tried the DSX yet, but it shouldn’t notice as it only sees a Cisco switch.
That’s the basics done. I’m sure there is a whole world of tweaking to be done (everything is on defaults), but it is certainly a nice bit of kit. WiFi range seems very good too.
That’s the basics done. I’m sure there is a whole world of tweaking to be done (everything is on defaults), but it is certainly a nice bit of kit. WiFi range seems very good too.
Tony L
Administrator
Here’s a pic:
It has sufficient ports that I can keep the Cisco dedicated to the DSX, this being one reason I went this route. Most of the modern home routers (Eero etc) only have a WAN and a single LAN port.
PS I may end up putting an air-gap between them if I can find something suitable as there is a bit of heat being generated there.
It has sufficient ports that I can keep the Cisco dedicated to the DSX, this being one reason I went this route. Most of the modern home routers (Eero etc) only have a WAN and a single LAN port.
PS I may end up putting an air-gap between them if I can find something suitable as there is a bit of heat being generated there.
John
Rack’em Up!
Gotta love ChatGBT for this kind of stuff:
End users can control several factors that may affect latency in their broadband network, such as:
1. **Quality of Service (QoS) settings:** Prioritize certain types of traffic, like video streaming or online gaming, to reduce latency for critical applications.
2. **Network equipment:** Upgrading routers, switches, and modems to more capable models can improve network performance.
3. **Wired vs. wireless connections:** Using wired Ethernet connections instead of Wi-Fi can reduce latency and improve stability.
4. **Background processes and applications:** Limiting the number of applications running in the background on devices can free up network resources and reduce latency.
5. **Network congestion:** Avoiding peak usage times or choosing less congested networks can help mitigate latency issues.
6. **Proximity to servers:** Choosing servers or services closer to your geographical location can reduce latency.
7. **Regular maintenance:** Performing regular maintenance tasks such as updating firmware, clearing caches, and optimizing network settings can help keep latency in check.
End users can control several factors that may affect latency in their broadband network, such as:
1. **Quality of Service (QoS) settings:** Prioritize certain types of traffic, like video streaming or online gaming, to reduce latency for critical applications.
2. **Network equipment:** Upgrading routers, switches, and modems to more capable models can improve network performance.
3. **Wired vs. wireless connections:** Using wired Ethernet connections instead of Wi-Fi can reduce latency and improve stability.
4. **Background processes and applications:** Limiting the number of applications running in the background on devices can free up network resources and reduce latency.
5. **Network congestion:** Avoiding peak usage times or choosing less congested networks can help mitigate latency issues.
6. **Proximity to servers:** Choosing servers or services closer to your geographical location can reduce latency.
7. **Regular maintenance:** Performing regular maintenance tasks such as updating firmware, clearing caches, and optimizing network settings can help keep latency in check.
Tony L
Administrator
Changing the router doesn’t seem to have changed the latency issue. I’m still ‘grade C‘ on the ‘bufferbloat’ test (results here) and ‘average’ for gaming on the Cloudflare test (was previously ‘poor’).
Streaming with the DSX works most of the time, but some times (random) it is so bad it is unusable as I can’t relax listening as it is inevitably going to cut out. Some days it can go hour after hour after hour with zero issue, other days it can’t get through a song. I’m still learning the router, but I think I’m very close to having ruled out issues at my end. I suspect it would work fine on a network fit for modern gaming, and sadly it appears mine isn’t despite great download speeds. Obviously some of this may be at the Qobuz end; googling ‘Qobuz dropouts’ gives tens of thousands of results.
I’ve not fiddled at all with the DrayTek’s QoS settings yet, though have hardware acceleration turned on. Everything else seems to be working fine, though I did notice a little stuttering in background music of For All Mankind at HDR on the Apple TV app on my Sony Android TV, though that may just be Android crapping-out as that should easily prefetch. It’s not a new TV (a fairly early 4k model).
I’m liking the router though. Nice to be able to get at stuff. It is a good bit of kit.
As to the long-term future I’m not sure. I’ll just happily stay where I am for a while. The DSX has shown me just how good a really high-end DAC can be. It does things I’ve not had from digital before, so if I replace it I‘ll need to find something at that performance level. For the time being it works well enough most of the time, and when it doesn’t I have the Poly/Mojo as a (very good) backup. Plus the DSX is a great DAC with the Apollo-R for standard CDs, so I’m in a pretty good place even if I haven’t sorted everything out fully yet.
Streaming with the DSX works most of the time, but some times (random) it is so bad it is unusable as I can’t relax listening as it is inevitably going to cut out. Some days it can go hour after hour after hour with zero issue, other days it can’t get through a song. I’m still learning the router, but I think I’m very close to having ruled out issues at my end. I suspect it would work fine on a network fit for modern gaming, and sadly it appears mine isn’t despite great download speeds. Obviously some of this may be at the Qobuz end; googling ‘Qobuz dropouts’ gives tens of thousands of results.
I’ve not fiddled at all with the DrayTek’s QoS settings yet, though have hardware acceleration turned on. Everything else seems to be working fine, though I did notice a little stuttering in background music of For All Mankind at HDR on the Apple TV app on my Sony Android TV, though that may just be Android crapping-out as that should easily prefetch. It’s not a new TV (a fairly early 4k model).
I’m liking the router though. Nice to be able to get at stuff. It is a good bit of kit.
As to the long-term future I’m not sure. I’ll just happily stay where I am for a while. The DSX has shown me just how good a really high-end DAC can be. It does things I’ve not had from digital before, so if I replace it I‘ll need to find something at that performance level. For the time being it works well enough most of the time, and when it doesn’t I have the Poly/Mojo as a (very good) backup. Plus the DSX is a great DAC with the Apollo-R for standard CDs, so I’m in a pretty good place even if I haven’t sorted everything out fully yet.
James Evans
Bedroom Bodger
Just a thought, but do you have spotify or tidal that you can test with to see how they behave?
Tony L
Administrator
No, neither. All I’ve tested so far are local network playing (100% flawless either from my MacBook or the Poly’s SD card) and Qobuz.
PS It is worth clarifying that the DSX is a DLNA local area network audio player and it works really well in that role. I am pushing it to get it to work as a streamer. Broadband technology will catch up with it and should really be indistinguishable from a LAN of a decade or two ago. I thought the PlusNet fibre service would be at that performance level, but it seems just on the edge of it.
James Evans
Bedroom Bodger
Set up a free trial maybe? Just to test, apple music as well I suppose. Tests the supplier variable anyway.
Tony L
Administrator
I’ll consider that. I’ve only got a couple of days left of my Qobuz trial, so I may cancel and try Tidal for a month and then buy whichever I prefer. Anyone think Tidal is any better?