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Squeezbox Touch vs CD player with dac

M@ver1ck said:
through the squeezebox and into my dac, spotify actually sounds better than losslessly ripped files.

On the other hand, I betcha it sounds a whole lot better than any $300 cd player used as a transport.

A lot of this sbt vs. cdp debate arises from comparing a $300 device with $1000 and up cd players.
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+1

Abolutely. I think it's the best hi-fi bargain I've ever had and I enjoy music played out of it more than the majority of CD players I've ever owned so it would be churlish to sniff at it.

The thing with the SBT is that there are a whole load of tweaks that can bring it seriously close - maybe even surpass what even the best CD players are capable of, once you get into aftermarket power supplies, better digital cables and some careful attention to the way you're decoding the audio and how it gets transferred into the SBT.

I made some serious improvements to the sound of the stock touch by (in order of amount of difference in quality):
1. Switching off the wireless and using an Ethernet connection.
2. Setting Squeezebox Server to do the decoding on the PC side for any losslessly compressed audio before sending it to the Touch
3. Installing Soundcheck's Touch Toolbox modifications and getting the buffer size down to as low as it will go without any clicks
4. Installing Triode's plugin for enhanced digital output (including Async USB output for the CDQ)

I've not gone as far as new power supplies, or separate dedicated Ethernet switches yet.

Sounds like a great challenge though.. Make the SBT sound as good as/better than CD playback from the CDQ. I'm up for trying.
 
lovejoy said:
+1

Abolutely. I think it's the best hi-fi bargain I've ever had and I enjoy music played out of it more than the majority of CD players I've ever owned so it would be churlish to sniff at it.

The thing with the SBT is that there are a whole load of tweaks that can bring it seriously close - maybe even surpass what even the best CD players are capable of, once you get into aftermarket power supplies, better digital cables and some careful attention to the way you're decoding the audio and how it gets transferred into the SBT.

I made some serious improvements to the sound of the stock touch by (in order of amount of difference in quality):
1. Switching off the wireless and using an Ethernet connection.
2. Setting Squeezebox Server to do the decoding on the PC side for any losslessly compressed audio before sending it to the Touch
3. Installing Soundcheck's Touch Toolbox modifications and getting the buffer size down to as low as it will go without any clicks
4. Installing Triode's plugin for enhanced digital output (including Async USB output for the CDQ)

I've not gone as far as new power supplies, or separate dedicated Ethernet switches yet.

Sounds like a great challenge though.. Make the SBT sound as good as/better than CD playback from the CDQ. I'm up for trying.
Click to expand...

cool-let's us hear about the result. :cool:
 
Having spent the w/e listening to my relatively modest vinyl setup I have concluded that vinyl still sounds a lot more more pleasantly musical than CD or the SBT...... (IMHO of course ;) ).

Apart from the pop and crackles that is, but the extra exersize I am getting in having to get up to change a record every 15-20 mins is good for me I suppose :rolleyes:.
 
graham-r said:
Having spent the w/e listening to my relatively modest vinyl setup I have concluded that vinyl still sounds a lot more more pleasantly musical than CD or the SBT...... (IMHO of course ;) ).

Apart from the pop and crackles that is, but the extra exersize I am getting in having to get up to change a record every 15-20 mins is good for me I suppose :rolleyes:.
Click to expand...

I agree completely but not all my music is on vinyl.
 
I ditched a Cyrus XT-SE CD transport and Cyrus DAC-X for a SBT as I couldn't hear the slightest difference between the two. I would be quite happy to use the DAC in the SBT, but find it more convenient to use the DAC in the speakers. I can't think of a single reason why I'd buy another CD player and love the convenience of SBT, iPlayer app and iPeng on the iPad.

Once ripped, I ditched the cases and store all my CDs in the loft, I doubt they'll ever get used again.
 
Storing all your cds losslessly is wise anyway, if the original gets damaged you have a backup... The next logical step is using that library to play from (much more convenient) and the cds become the backup...

Rip a few albums and try it sometime, laptop into dac will do..
No looking back, easy decision once tried. :)
 
Nytechy said:
Intriguing debate. Why are those convinced that SBT etc. is the way to go storing their CDs?
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Couldn't be bothered to sell them, storage in 'caselogic' cases doesn't take much space and selling the CDs would put me in a dodgy place re copyright law.
 
src1 said:
Couldn't be bothered to sell them, storage in 'caselogic' cases doesn't take much space and selling the CDs would put me in a dodgy place re copyright law.
Click to expand...

I've kept my CDs in the listening room as I do occasionally refer to the booklets, especially for classical music. Selling them isn't an option legally as I would then have to delete them from my hard-drive.

S.
 
Just out of interest, I hooked up a cable direct from the SBT to my preamp, so I could do a quick A-B versus the nDac/XPS.

A few weeks ago, I went to the Naim "Future of Music" event at Oranges and Lemons where I got to listen to the ND5XS, NDX and NDS. During this demo, we stepped through a bare ND5XS right up to a 555PS powered NDS.

Starting with the ND5XS it produces a very decent sound, with just a hint of digital hardness. It was the sort of sound that in isolation was hard to fault. Adding a power supply improved things, taking away some of the glare, but the sound in terms of bandwidth and dynamics was basically the same. Moving up to the NDX improved things yet again in the same direction and by the time we got to NDX/XPS it was hard to see what could be improved as the sound was so real and palpable.

When we did finally get to the NDS/555PS at a price tag well into the teens, it struck me that we were far into the tail of the law of diminishing returns curve. Yes, it had a difficult to describe naturalness that the NDX missed slightly, but you were being asked to part with an awful lot of money for what seemed like small nuances.

Which brings me to my point, the SBT/nDac/XPS is vastly better than the basic SBT. The gap is much bigger than the difference between a ND5XS and NDS/555. It is far more open and extended and natural and real sounding. In isolation, the bare SBT is ridiculously good for the £139 I paid for it. It is the incarnation of "perfect" digital sound at low cost, 30 years after we were promised it would happen. In a basic to mid-range system, it would be a great front end even without a DAC. With a more revealing system, I am now of the opinion, when combined with an appropriate DAC that it is the hifi bargain of recent times.

I was never convinced by the concept of the ND5xs/NDX/NDS; a streamer is all about the user interface and server side connectivity. Naim is too stuck in their conventional rectangular box designs and small screens and IMO have struggled with the necessary software expertise. The SBT/nDAC/XPS though, particularly combined with a Spotify Premium subscription is exactly what I need.
 
Thanks for a fair write-up John. I'm with you feeling the SBT is a tremendous value if not the best thing since sliced bread.

Overall, I still prefer my CDS2, CDS1 and CD 3.5 sonically but none of these can be replaced for 300 bucks with an exact sonic equivalent should they break, none will deliver free music from almost every genre imaginable and none will be easily bridged to the Internet or server sources without using a go-between such as CD-Rs.
 
John

Have you tried using an iPod touch or iphone running iPeng to control your Squeezeboxserver and Touch. It's well worth the effort of mastering the iPeng GUI.

I had trouble figuring out how to get it to immediately play a selected CD or track rather than appending it to the playlist but now that I have it sorted I think this little system is amazing for the money.

GBP139 for the Touch and about GBP 80 for a Buffalo Linkstation to run the server I've heard it through a friends Audiolab CDQ, with Monitor Audio Silver floorstanders. It's bloody good and 1000 odd Cd's all at your fingertips

I bought my first Slimdevices Squeezebox 2 way back when they were novel curios but I think the technology has now really come into it's own. I fear Logitech LMS7 is a step too far though so I'm not going there yet

eddie

Eddie
 
eddie pugh said:
John

Have you tried using an iPod touch or iphone running iPeng to control your Squeezeboxserver and Touch. It's well worth the effort of mastering the iPeng GUI.

I had trouble figuring out how to get it to immediately play a selected CD or track rather than appending it to the playlist but now that I have it sorted I think this little system is amazing for the money.

GBP139 for the Touch and about GBP 80 for a Buffalo Linkstation to run the server I've heard it through a friends Audiolab CDQ, with Monitor Audio Silver floorstanders. It's bloody good and 1000 odd Cd's all at your fingertips

I bought my first Slimdevices Squeezebox 2 way back when they were novel curios but I think the technology has now really come into it's own. I fear Logitech LMS7 is a step too far though so I'm not going there yet

eddie

Eddie
Click to expand...

Why? :)
 
dave said:
Thanks for a fair write-up John. I'm with you feeling the SBT is a tremendous value if not the best thing since sliced bread.

Overall, I still prefer my CDS2, CDS1 and CD 3.5 sonically but none of these can be replaced for 300 bucks with an exact sonic equivalent should they break, none will deliver free music from almost every genre imaginable and none will be easily bridged to the Internet or server sources without using a go-between such as CD-Rs.
Click to expand...

Years ago, I bought a SB3 and it was so trounced by my CDS2/XPS2 that I never really made much use of it. From what I remember it sounded horribly compressed and tonally grey and nothing like the CDS2.

The SBT/nDAC/XPS2 is a different proposition however and without a direct A/B I would say it is on a par (and probably better with high res stuff). I still have the CDS2, but because I do not have two XPS2s it is currently switched off so have not done the test.
 
kristoffer

LMS7 as I understand it brings video streaming to the Squeezeboxserver. This increases the computer power needed to run the server quite dramatically. If your running the server under Linux on modest first generation Linkstation Pro then it will probably grind to a stop.

If you want LMS7 then you need say an Atom or similar powered machine
I've not tried this but just be careful with LMS7 It's apparrently quite a beast

eddie
 
eddie pugh said:
kristoffer

LMS7 as I understand it brings video streaming to the Squeezeboxserver. This increases the computer power needed to run the server quite dramatically. If your running the server under Linux on modest first generation Linkstation Pro then it will probably grind to a stop.

If you want LMS7 then you need say an Atom or similar powered machine
I've not tried this but just be careful with LMS7 It's apparrently quite a beast

eddie
Click to expand...

I have 7.7.2 running on my mac and I find it runs better than it used to do. Takes almost no cpu and just about 160 mb. of ram. The scan time is also improved.
 
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