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Speakers for NAIM

Your money would probably be better spent upgrading the PSU for the 82. The FC really is a bit "pants".

Might one suggest this (no connection with the seller)?

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I really don't think the speakers are actually the problem in this system, they're just revealing a little too much.
 
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IMO olive 250 is unlikely to solve the issues. I changed to different amp to solve a similar issue (because I liked other things about the speakers too much to sell them), but making the right speaker changes should resolve it too.
Changing from 282/180, to 282/olive 250 (caveat: slightly modified), made my main system even brighter. (I have a Sean Jacobs CHC-CAP in lieu of 2 Hicaps, but never did get to compare other power supplies).
Now sorted with non-Naim pre and power amps with the same speakers.
I still have the Naim amps elsewhere with warmer sounding speakers and that system is not bright (but not a good speaker match in other respects).
 
I have Neat Iota Alpha’s with my Naim amps. Had 102/180 with HiCap, adding the HiCap was a worthwhile move. Upgraded to 82 still using the Hi and 180 and added Witch Hat Phoenix boards to the 180. Again a good improvement, the 82 especially so. Then changed to a 250 and prefer it with the WH boards over the standard Naim ones. The 250 gave more bass weight and resolution over the 180 for me. Tried 2 hi caps with the 82, slightly better than single one but bigger improvement was getting a serviced Supercap from Darren at Class A in place of the 2 hi caps. I am very happy with the system, not harsh, great soundstage and resolution. The Neats are great speakers, maybe too small for a large room but mine is only 5x3m, there are the bigger brothers Xplorers to consider. Neats gel well with Naim gear, but like anything it’s all personal taste. I do use ISO Acoustic Gaia feet on my speakers which gave a big SQ improvement. The Neats were able to show the improvements as I worked my way up over 3 years so highly recommend them.
 
Chris Gallagher said:
HI Everyone

Current setup

NAP 180/NAC 82/1 FC
Rega P6, Ania/Rega fono
Bluesound node 2
Naim CD5x
Kef r700

Ive had the 82 now for over a year after going from a 102 am really pleased with it but since going to Naim 2 years ago my speakers have always sounded a bit harsh almost fatiguing.

I am considering new speakers to match these monsters as I have a large sitting room and although haven't heard them was thinking of something like PMC OB1's

Does anyone own a pair of these speakers with Naim gear? Or can recommend a similar priced match?

Thanks Guys.
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I dont know the KEFs r700's. I would say I run Ruark Talisman 2's and EPOS ES14's with Naim equipment and they are most certainly synergystic and never harsh. The ruarks especially come up regularly s/h for around the £200 mark, so perhaps worth a go, without huge expense, to rule out your KEFs being the source of the problem? Can always shift them on again if they dont suit. Ruark Crusader 2's can give any speaker a run for their money - but dont come up for sale often. Celestion A2's also work beautifully with 82/180 - again, often go for 2-300, and are excellent. WOrk best in a large room, so sound like they'd suit.

Naim amps / power supplies which need a service can be a bit "shouty", and your KEFs could be revealing that. Or it could be the room they are in dont suit them. 82/180 is not a harsh sounding set up, so something is amiss somewhere.
 
Thanks for these comments, it's always tricky to know which thing to change or tweak and I really find this forum helpful and constructive. Often people can post unhelpful or sarcastic stuff but rarely here.

Anyway, I did make a slight error in my original post - I have one HiCap fitted and not a flat cap! Sorry for that.

Strangely the harshness is more pronounced on the turntable and CD than the streamer! I'm wondering if I should alter the settings on the back of the rega phono stage? Or would a service of the turntable help? (Ive had it from new about 7 years)

As an example I can't turn it up past 8 o'clock or the vocals become unbearable.
 
Chris Gallagher said:
Thanks for these comments, it's always tricky to know which thing to change or tweak and I really find this forum helpful and constructive. Often people can post unhelpful or sarcastic stuff but rarely here.

Anyway, I did make a slight error in my original post - I have one HiCap fitted and not a flat cap! Sorry for that.

Strangely the harshness is more pronounced on the turntable and CD than the streamer! I'm wondering if I should alter the settings on the back of the rega phono stage? Or would a service of the turntable help? (Ive had it from new about 7 years)

As an example I can't turn it up past 8 o'clock or the vocals become unbearable.
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In the world of stereos I would have thought that an amplifier which is in good working order would be the component least likely to influence the sound, with the room and speakers making the most impact on the sound signature, largely irrespective of the choice of amplifier.

If you can, I recommend trying a few different speakers in your system in their likely final position at home. I discovered that more capable speakers can high light acoustic issues with my room, including bass emphasis which I didn't hear with my previous speakers because they weren't able to excite the room at those frequencies.

In my opinion it is better to have the information, (bass) and to dial it back, than not have it at all!

NB. I did however manage to mess up my phono playback system by choosing an Audio Technica Cartridge ref: AT 440MLB which to my ears makes my turntable sound very bright.
 
Chris, further to my last post, system synergy is the thing we all look for, that is not only how all the equipment gels together, but also how it interacts with the room. There are many video's on YouTube on this subject, see John Darko's channel for one example. I have tamed some bass bloating and trebel / mid harshness buy using acoustic panels, not many as the cost and physical space they can take up would also spoil my lounge layout. In the end it's my living room as well not a recording studio, but all the same it did help. GIK acoustics in UK do have some helpfull video's on their website on room acoustics out of interest.

My 102/180 combo was a bit shouty, using a HiCap which you have helps, the 82 is definetly an improvement. Tweeking cables, going to a Supercap and 250, changing to WH Pheonix boards in the 250 all changed the way the system sounded, for the good to me anyway, mostly eliminating the similance on the highs at higher volumes being one benefit. I have also gained the improvements in soundstage, seperation dynamics, bass etc, you can keep chasing down these things and spend a lot doing to, I have tried to keep a sensible lid on this. I am very pleased with my system now, found a happy spot, any other changes will cost more than I want to spend at the moment.

Others would say change the amps to something different, what you get is a different sound, it's all horses for courses, some bits may be better so not so, it's the sound you like that counts, thats why we are all different and why there are many different equipment manufacturers out there and not just one.

One thing I have found in life is nothing is perfect, like Roog says above, speakers and room interactions do play a significant part in what you hear, sounds obvious, but that maybe a route persuing before changing amps. For me I love the Naim sound, always have, I've owned other amps in the past and listen to friends equipment but always come back to what i like. The olive gear is good VFM for me anyway.

It's a hobby for me, I just love music and am happy to listen to it in my car, through my Alexa, on my Sonos etc, yes the HiFi is better SQ but it's enjoying the music that counts as well as long as it is not grating.
 
Stew B said:
One thing I have found in life is nothing is perfect, like Roog says above, speakers and room interactions do play a significant part in what you hear, sounds obvious, but that maybe a route persuing before changing amps. For me I love the Naim sound, always have, I've owned other amps in the past and listen to friends equipment but always come back to what i like. The olive gear is good VFM for me anyway.
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Thanks for that Stew & Roog.

Today I dug out my old Epos ES14s and attached them and its all still a bit harsh. Slightly less I would say but it's still there. Yes maybe it's the room? I have hard floor, venetian blinds and no curtains. Why the Bluenote streamer sounds warmer (only slightly) is a complete mystery???

Thanks again guys.
 
I absolutely loved my 102/180, but I used them in a room with a lot of furniture and just a small window. As you have no curtains, here could be the problem…
 
I have the R700s. I wouldn't have said they're harsh at all. I haven't heard the 180/82 but I was originally running the R700s with a Supernait 2. I don't recall that combination sounding harsh. If anything, getting the bass under control was the problem. The midrange through to treble was generally smooth and even.

The R700s have now moved to the home theatre system. The Supernait 2 is currently sitting idle. I was thinking of dropping it into the home theatre system as a poweramp for the R700 which are the front left/right. If I do that, I'll let you know how it sounds there.

If you like the sound of the R700, I would suggest sticking with it. They are a pretty decent speaker. The new version with the meta is quite an improvement, though.
 
ChrisS said:
What were you using before Naim? why did you switch to Naim? Did things improve any with the 82 relative to the 102?

I started with the 102/180 combo and found it exciting but unrelenting thus fatiguing for me. I haven’t heard nearly has much Naim kit is others here, but reputationally the 102/180 combo seems to be at the relentless end of the spectrum. I tried power supplies but that added more of the same. Everything was unserviced which may have played a role. I moved to a 32.5 with RSL cards and a serviced 110. For me this is much improved.

i would think carefully about investing in new speakers before considering whether you really like the Naim sound - or at least the Olive version. If sticking with Naim, perhaps the “Classic” series might work better.
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The OP had MF kit prior to Naim.

pinkfishmedia.net

New Naim Owner needs cd advice

After years of owning a musical fidelity setup I have bought a naim nap 180 pre and a nac 102 with a napsc. My musical fidelity a3 CD player now sounds terribly harsh and I was wondering what would be a reasonable upgrade. Was thinking a naim CD player but wondered what people think. it’s all...
pinkfishmedia.net pinkfishmedia.net
 
No one going to suggest the sources aren't ideal for that amp?

Improving the amp isn't going to help. The P6/Ania is going to be a bit lean and the CD5x just isn't good enough. Harsh is exactly what I would expect.
 
Chris Gallagher said:
HI Everyone

Current setup

NAP 180/NAC 82/1 FC
Rega P6, Ania/Rega fono
Bluesound node 2
Naim CD5x
Kef r700

Ive had the 82 now for over a year after going from a 102 am really pleased with it but since going to Naim 2 years ago my speakers have always sounded a bit harsh almost fatiguing.

I am considering new speakers to match these monsters as I have a large sitting room and although haven't heard them was thinking of something like PMC OB1's

Does anyone own a pair of these speakers with Naim gear? Or can recommend a similar priced match?

Thanks Guys.
Click to expand...

SteveH said:
What? A Naim system sounding "harsh" and "fatiguing"? Surely not!

Well, my solution to the problem was some Shahinians, which partner very well with Naim and easily fill a "large sitting room" (in fact, they sound best when given room to breathe). New, they're very expensive. Used they're bargainous. I used Arcs and Obelisks very successfully with Naim for decades.

The last speaker I'd try would be one of Naim's own offerings, which always seemed to me to exacerbate the problem.
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There's a thing, it was OK, then the OP bought Naim, now it's harsh. Hmm. What's changed?
 
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