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Sound quality at gigs

Went to a small jazz gig yesterday in a bar down the road. Reminded me that the thing that really impacts sound quality is middle aged blokes who rock up and loudly chat the whole way through the gig... 🤫
 
paulfromcamden said:
Went to a small jazz gig yesterday in a bar down the road. Reminded me that the thing that really impacts sound quality is middle aged blokes who rock up and loudly chat the whole way through the gig... 🤫
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Was it Miles who used to turn his back on the audience when they did that?
 
boneman said:
Was it Miles who used to turn his back on the audience when they did that?
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Well he was certainly turning his back,scratching his ear and inspecting the results then walking off stage out of lack of interest at Hammersmith Odeon in 1960. The audience were hardly disrespectful more reverential.
Few times I saw MD I thought the disrespect was aimed at the audience. Called ‘building the image’.
 
@Tony L although I'll never for the life of me 'get' the DJ thing as to me it's simply someone playing someone else's music, mixing two, & then often falsely claiming some input into actually creating it (so much so that even a goodtimes wedding DJ I can't abide being in the same room as!!).. being at the hacienda even in the earliest days before it went proper potty, is again impressive. It's hallowed ground & a unique place on the UK musical map, no doubt whatsoever about that.

If only "DJ Cooldude" wasn't ever a thing, or there was just one TT & someone just played tune after tune (IE a -proper- DJ say.. like Jimmy Savile back in 60's) I could've taken the whole partaay music scene more seriously I think. As it is, I take it about as seriously as those Slipknot chaps who I find nothing but an amusing spectacle.

I'll get me coat. Again. Sigh.

Capt
 
Last gig I went to was Opeth in Glasgow, with my eldest, who’s a big fan. Was fully expecting the Motörhead experience, so purchased ear defenders beforehand, but was pleasantly surprised by restraint shown on the volume knob by the sound engineer and we didn’t need them. Sound quality was only average, which was a shame. Wish I’d had defenders for Sheryl Crow in Manchester though. A few years back now, but I came out of that gig with my hearing severely dulled and had a mid pitched tinnitus whistle for hours after. I already have tinnitus (a constant 11kHz whistle in both ears) from playing drums, in various bands, for years. not surprising when decent crash cymbals can hit 120dB in the high range, which is very definately not good for the lugs.
 
A lot of venues have badly installed and set-up in-house systems suffering from a lack of maintenance and basic understanding of how to make them work properly (the general perception of in-house techs were they were the ones not good enough to get a touring job... not always the case but true enough a lot of the time). When I was touring with bands it was amazing how many house systems needed a lot of love and adjustment to make them sound half-decent.
When you are touring a system then you can really be at the mercy of the venues acoustics, arenas in particular can be very problematic and require a lot of computer modelling and DSP, though as with home hifi, this can never be a substitute for some decent room-treatment.
Once you have got over this and assuming you have a systems engineer who knows their onions, it down to the FOH engineer to tune the system and that can also add a variance.
 
I have had some amazingly good quality experiences, along with a plethora of bad ones - probably not unlike most.
Choosing a venue, and artist capable of good sound can yield results.

The RAH has surprised on some, being truly outstanding (this does rather depend on what seats you obtain) but truly memorable have been Goldfrapp (one of the best ever gigs for me) Nine Inch nails, Olafur Arnalds, King Crimson & Dave Gilmore.
My favourite venue is Symphony Hall, where a mixing desk guy has to try really hard to get a bad sound. Two have achieved just that for me - Steve Wilson (of all folks) & Rodrigo y Gabriela.
Did a Roger Waters gig at an arena in Birmingham. Sound was astonishingly crisp and clear - to the point of being too good - towards the end I really got the impression some form of electronic trickery was going on. I still do not know if it was, or just truly perfect on mixing desk.
In that place no one else has achieved that.
Tool - you need to be at one of their gigs to even begin to understand how good it can be - ear defenders required.
Maynard spends much time at the stage rear - behind everyone else.
Partly for the effect on sound with the mike - although much else is written to differ with that.

Live music is always going to be different to what you get from listening to a HiFi - even at carefully chosen gigs without louts pouring beer down your back and holding up phones all the time.
 
I've been around music since I was four (4), that's playing instruments. I've been to many gigs by some top bands, (Led Z, Fleetwood, Yes, JT) and been happy to listen to the whole shabang. The best was Yes. The set started with the end of Stravinsky's Firebird Suite, then, as soon as it ended, in came the group playing in the same key. Perfection! But I attended a gig in a local pub by a group called Buzzard who played far too loudly. As I was into vibrations even then, I touched every non-person item in reach, the only thing not vibrating (much) was a stool top. In the end, my friend and I decided to call it a night, and walked back to the car while the group were still playing. It was only when we were about 200 yards away from the 'sound' could we understand what the singer was singing about. [Another night I played with Buzzard for one number, with ear buds in!]
 
Mr Pig said:
Well I've heard both great and terrible gigs in the Royal Concert Hall in Glasgow. I find these kinds of venue often over-damped and lifeless sounding.
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Yes, the Royal Concert Hall just is pretty dull and over-damped sounding. Not a great success, acoustically. For orchestral gigs I much prefer to be near the front or it's just a bit dead sounding. I've generally found it decent for amplified gigs - I think venues like that at least tend to avoid the uncontrolled reverberation that can be such a challenge in more sparse halls.
 
I've found the sound at live gigs to be immensely variable and your location in the venue can make a massive difference. I like to be somewhere in the first few rows and centre of the row, as I like to feel more a part of the performance. However this can result in poor sound as the speakers at the right and left of stage are not always directed towards those seats and some of the musicians/vocalists cannot be heard clearly. I've had some real pleasant surprises though, Elton John's outside gig at Worcester Cricket Club was surprisingly superb sounding.
Acoustic, unamplified performances in small venues usually work really well, as to be expected.
 
If you can’t get a decent sound in a small venue you’re in trouble . Most of the audience is hearing what the foh engineer is hearing at the mix position. Getting a decent sound to everyone in an arena is a bigger challenge and the aim is to hit every seat with at least something reasonable. Putting rock and roll in a venue designed for acoustic gigs is another pet hate, the sage in Gateshead is a particular culprit and obviously the royal Albert hall is another. Many of the touring pros are pretty deaf after years of punishment and many rely on measurements to ensure consistency as ears change dramatically from the beginning to the end of the tour, which is also one reason why many gigs are just too damn loud.
 
Sonority said:
Live music is always going to be different to what you get from listening to a HiFi - even at carefully chosen gigs without louts pouring beer down your back and holding up phones all the time.
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Thank God, I got to old for live rock before the advent of camera phones :) (I have tinnitus)

One very good sounding live experience comes to my mind. It was Swedish tribute band P Floyd (I think you can guess what band their music is based on). They sounded more or less like the records!
 
RJohan said:
Thank God, I got to old for live rock before the advent of camera phones :) (I have tinnitus)

One very good sounding live experience comes to my mind. It was Swedish tribute band P Floyd (I think you can guess what band their music is based on). They sounded more or less like the records!
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Quite probably The Pink Floyd Experience (they are actually Norwegian), guitarist is a guy called Bjørn Riis who is also in Scandi proggers Airbag plus has released a few of his own solo albums. Pretty good if you like that sort of thing. He also runs a website called Gilmourish which is dedicated to Dave Gilmour's gear and sound. Deffo one for the Floyd geeks.
 
Greyandy said:
Quite probably The Pink Floyd Experience (they are actually Norwegian), guitarist is a guy called Bjørn Riis who is also in Scandi proggers Airbag plus has released a few of his own solo albums. Pretty good if you like that sort of thing. He also runs a website called Gilmourish which is dedicated to Dave Gilmour's gear and sound. Deffo one for the Floyd geeks.
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This is the P Floyd I'm referring to:


And it seem to be recorder with the above mentioned camera phones..
 
I go to quite a lot of concerts, here in Toronto and elsewhere. I used to be in UK at many of the aforementioned venues ( both with shows and as audience ) so know and have heard both great and bad sound, often in the same venue, even between support act and the headliner. Not always the headliner with the best sound.

I worked in Manchester for a while, more than once in my life - alas the Hacienda was a triumph of "style" over sound. To me it was always terrible whether a DJ set or an actual band. I hope others got lucky with a quality ear experience. Back then, you generally went there for other reasons.

Onto more positive - Massey Hall here in Toronto is pretty darn good - I have to say that because I did some work on the recent upgrades.

Mind you, we went to Elvis Costello supported by Nick Lowe and there was quite a contrast between the two sets. Nick Lowe was great ( in house mix tech ) - clear as a bell, Elvis - either his voice is shot or his touring mix engineer had different listening tastes. Many of the audience around us were wondering what was so bad.

Years ago, Morcheeba did a gig at a small venue called the Opera House - not the one that Canadian Opera use - but a older vaudeville style place. The sound and lights that night were fantastically good. I went to the sound and lx mix positions and talked to them afterwards to say my thanks and asked them what they were touring. The reply was "we turned up today at 1pm and we just used the house gear". Good on them. Two or three weeks later at St Etienne it was "shit" sound - same gear.

I have started going to a former gospel church now turned into Hugh's Room - a 200 capacity venue with a totally analogue system. They do a mix of jazz, blues, folk, singer/songwriter gigs. Wonderful sound - even if I don't always like the music - the system is in the hands/ears of three rotating mix techs who treat us all - musicians included - to a great evening.

I am going to three concerts at three different venues in the next week - wish me luck.
 
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