Colin Barron
pfm Member
Has anyone experience of changing the clock and power supplies on the Sonos ZP90.
Sonos zp90 clock and power supply
- Thread starter Colin Barron
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_webwasher
pfm Member
dr. gerd volk offers a low jitter clock mod for zp90/connect. d/a converted with a decent dac sq is much better than original zp.
Hi,
When we are on power supplies for digital players I wanted to ask how it actually improve the digital output, as I cannot imagine it has any influence.
I know the analog stage can be improved vastly, but digital output are just the data. Well there is jitter involved, but it has nothing to do power supply i suppose.
Anything I can imagine is that poor power supply can influence the data sent introducing kind of noise, but if its fine enough, its all about sending 0 and 1... Until 0 is recognized as 0 and 1 as 1 there is no room to improve, is there?
Tomasz
When we are on power supplies for digital players I wanted to ask how it actually improve the digital output, as I cannot imagine it has any influence.
I know the analog stage can be improved vastly, but digital output are just the data. Well there is jitter involved, but it has nothing to do power supply i suppose.
Anything I can imagine is that poor power supply can influence the data sent introducing kind of noise, but if its fine enough, its all about sending 0 and 1... Until 0 is recognized as 0 and 1 as 1 there is no room to improve, is there?
Tomasz
What about propagating ground noise from a not so good supply, noise propagates through every thing and ends up on the analog rails, maybe...
Clocks have less jitter with cleaner supplies, Buffaloes seem to have large jitter for the first minute from cold, until the shunts warm up.
I have many possible cases of how better suplies improve digital and non impose the idea that the 0 +1s get improved.
Clocks have less jitter with cleaner supplies, Buffaloes seem to have large jitter for the first minute from cold, until the shunts warm up.
I have many possible cases of how better suplies improve digital and non impose the idea that the 0 +1s get improved.
Hi Bemused,
I have actually asked about power supply in digital players, because I am thinking if it could improve the joggler with usb output.
Now when I think about it, you have right, the power supply influence the jitter, but that is the case when one uses for example spdif, as the clock and data are not separeted in spdif.
The I2S in the other hand sends only the data and no clock, thats why its so critical in sending it over longer distances...if i got the things right
Now how does it look like in Asynchronous USB...? And the joggler...bother with power supply or shall I do this on the buffalo side...
Have found something to read:
http://www.naimaudio.com/sites/defa...s/files/dac-v1_asynchronous-usb_mwp_jan13.pdf
I have actually asked about power supply in digital players, because I am thinking if it could improve the joggler with usb output.
Now when I think about it, you have right, the power supply influence the jitter, but that is the case when one uses for example spdif, as the clock and data are not separeted in spdif.
The I2S in the other hand sends only the data and no clock, thats why its so critical in sending it over longer distances...if i got the things right
Now how does it look like in Asynchronous USB...? And the joggler...bother with power supply or shall I do this on the buffalo side...
Have found something to read:
http://www.naimaudio.com/sites/defa...s/files/dac-v1_asynchronous-usb_mwp_jan13.pdf
if i got the things right, there is no need of better power supply for digital player if using Asynchronous mode USB
Naim sates:
Asynchronous mode is superior to other USB data transfer modes because it allows the DAC to control the flow of audio data rather than the computer. Data is pulled from the computer under control of the DAC, not pushed to the DAC under control of the computer. This allows a high precision, low phase noise clock to be placed optimally, close to the digital-to-analogue converter chips, thereby ensuring the lowest possible output jitter and best possible sound quality.
I have then Amareno, that pullst the data and sends it over SHORT wires to the DAC, where the play with regulators starts...
Would that be right or Have i got the things wrong?
Naim sates:
Asynchronous mode is superior to other USB data transfer modes because it allows the DAC to control the flow of audio data rather than the computer. Data is pulled from the computer under control of the DAC, not pushed to the DAC under control of the computer. This allows a high precision, low phase noise clock to be placed optimally, close to the digital-to-analogue converter chips, thereby ensuring the lowest possible output jitter and best possible sound quality.
I have then Amareno, that pullst the data and sends it over SHORT wires to the DAC, where the play with regulators starts...
Would that be right or Have i got the things wrong?
I have I2S isolation in the I2S lines, word, data and ground. Its an improvement in sq no doubt. It keeps the ground 0v cleaner on the buffalo side, no so much a jitter problem. As you say asynchronous usb gives clean data bits but 0v noise still propagates from joggler to buffalo.
Apologies to op for direction change.
Apologies to op for direction change.
I did imply (hint) that the WaveIO has some neat tricks, clock carry forward, isolated I2S, already geared up for multiple supplies and a trick daughter board in the wings for a little tidy up on the re clocking side. Does not do DSD like the Amanero though.
My I2S ground is isolated twice! I got carried away.
The Arduino I2C is not isolated and its funny you mention it as I recently gave it some thought and ordered in an Analog Devices Hot Swap Digital Isolator ADUM1250ARZ
RS 412-810.
Its on my rather large to do list.
Pretty sure its the right kit for the job but as yet untested.
Tony
My I2S ground is isolated twice! I got carried away.
The Arduino I2C is not isolated and its funny you mention it as I recently gave it some thought and ordered in an Analog Devices Hot Swap Digital Isolator ADUM1250ARZ
RS 412-810.
Its on my rather large to do list.
Pretty sure its the right kit for the job but as yet untested.
Tony
Colin whilst I have no experience of changing the clock and power supplies on the Sonos ZP90, I would be surprised if a flea or two did not improve matters. It just always does unless the Sonos already has some advanced feedback supper regs on board which I would think is unlikely.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Looking at the power supply feeding the digital and analogue sections i think individual regs would help. I think i may put the unit in a bigger box to start the job because its pretty tight in there.
It althgether depends on how far you take it. Splitting analog and digital along with half decent regs often helps no end, sometimes just a flea on the clock does some good and some close the lid at that point. But taking things further you often find seperate transformers cleans up the ground lines, both myself and John Luckins adopt the multi transformer and regulator approach.
What is a zp90, a dac?
What is a zp90, a dac?
Colin Barron
pfm Member
The Sonos ZP90 is a controller for wav or other files on a NAS drive. The quality is not brilliant but the interface using an ipad is very good. Quality is better if the digital output is fed into a decent dac.
_webwasher
pfm Member
+1 for zp90
brilliant user interface, great software updates over the time, add a low jitter output and decent dac: very good sound quality and usability!
brilliant user interface, great software updates over the time, add a low jitter output and decent dac: very good sound quality and usability!
I've implemented a Flea / Tent clock in the ZP80 to good effect. It was a bit of a squeeze to fit it in though, the PSU/Flea/clock board sits under the other boards with some plastic removed from the internal bracing.
Colin, you have the details via PM.
Agree about the iPad interface - I've just used it for the first time and it makes a big difference.
My to-do mods list:
1. Jfet buffer for the SPDIF output.
2. Linear PSUs (will require re-housing the ZP).
3. If I can extract the I2S signals, an I2S over LVDS over HDMI implementation a la PSAudio, bypassing the sonos' DAC chip completely.
Colin, you have the details via PM.
Agree about the iPad interface - I've just used it for the first time and it makes a big difference.
My to-do mods list:
1. Jfet buffer for the SPDIF output.
2. Linear PSUs (will require re-housing the ZP).
3. If I can extract the I2S signals, an I2S over LVDS over HDMI implementation a la PSAudio, bypassing the sonos' DAC chip completely.
Colin Barron
pfm Member
Hi Ron,
I am looking at shunt regs for both the 3.3v and the 12v supply. I think both voltages are used for the digital side. I have ordered shunt regs for my Buff3 (£210 + £10 postage). Rehousing the sonos in a bigger box is next in the list, then fit new regs. i thought shunt regs were better for digital?
I am looking at shunt regs for both the 3.3v and the 12v supply. I think both voltages are used for the digital side. I have ordered shunt regs for my Buff3 (£210 + £10 postage). Rehousing the sonos in a bigger box is next in the list, then fit new regs. i thought shunt regs were better for digital?