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Something that may be of interest to Aqua La Scala users

Fergus

pfm Member
It’s funny how the introduction of a new component to your system can highlight an issue elsewhere that you didn’t even know you had!

I have had and enjoyed my Aqua La Scala DAC for a few years now and for most of that time it has been fed by a Metrum Ambre streamer with the output of the DAC connected to the CD line input of my Marantz KI-Ruby integrated amplifier with RCA cables.

A week or so ago I upgraded the Metrum to a Lumin U2 Mini. The Lumin was simply inserted in place of the Metrum, connected to the Aqua using the same AES/ EBU cable and was configured as a Roon end point to minimise any user differences between the streamers. Over this short period the Lumin has shown itself to be a worthy replacement and I was looking forward to trying some of the alternative configurations it offers.

Last night my brother in law visited and we figured out that to use the Lumin’s Leedh digital volume control to best effect the output of the DAC should be fed into my amplifiers “PWR AMP” input bypassing its preamplifier section. This was a bit intense as I anticipated an error on my behalf with the Leedh volume control could explode my speakers!

All went well and when I played some music it sounded great, but there was a noise I hadn’t noticed before. Further investigation found that it was louder in the left channel than the right so everything was powered down and the channel inputs swapped over on the amplifier. The noise followed the swap so the culprit had to be my beloved DAC, this was most distressing.

This is where my brother in law earned his cup of tea and a cookie. He has the same DAC, actually I copied him, and he is more familiar with it than I am, not to mention he is a more “hands on” type whereas I am a manual muppet!

Now that I have finally got there this is the point where any Aqua La Scala users may care to take note.

This DAC has two valves but they are not used one per channel. They are twin triodes and one is used for its single ended output and the other for the balanced. My brother in law suggested swapping them over rather than assume my DAC was faulty so I left him to it. Turned out he was correct and with them swapped over the noise was gone and the sound was quite different. He suggested this was only exposed by the noisy output being fed into the unattenuated input. I generally listen at quite low levels so the noise never showed itself when fed through the attenuated CD line input of my amplifier. There is no telling if this valve was always noisy or it had deteriorated with use but I would suggest that anyone with this DAC and it is around 3-4 years old should try swapping the valves over, there may be a benefit.
 
I was aware of how the valves worked when I did some tube rolling on it.

I found the original valves Aqua used to be be ruddy terrible. After swapping to a set of 50's Mullards, the DAC became, at least for me, what it should have been from the start. They have been in there now a good three years without it being turned off, so definitely something I'll look out for!
 
I was thinking about looking at different valves. There is an event at Elite Audio in May and they’re going to be doing some tube rolling and the La Scala is going to be one of the test beds, could be interesting.
 
I was thinking about looking at different valves. There is an event at Elite Audio in May and they’re going to be doing some tube rolling and the La Scala is going to be one of the test beds, could be interesting.

Definitely worth going if you don't want to shell out for some decent NOS valves to try yourself, the originals are just really nasty in my opinion and give the La Scala such an 'etched' sound at times. I'd love to try a set of the Telefunken 801S's just for curiosity but they are pretty damn expensive now, so I just stick with the Mullards and enjoy the music.
 
I was aware of how the valves worked when I did some tube rolling on it.

I found the original valves Aqua used to be be ruddy terrible. After swapping to a set of 50's Mullards, the DAC became, at least for me, what it should have been from the start. They have been in there now a good three years without it being turned off, so definitely something I'll look out for!
Which Mullards are you using? I've got a pair of E81CC's in at the moment which sound pretty amazing, but always interested to try out alternatives
 
@flutteringwow @MotherSky
If it's ecc81s that the LaScala uses then I have a pair of Philips Valvo 6201 here doing nothing. I've always loved the tfk sound and what they did in my Lector CDP7TL but the 6201s were a revelation in the Lector. If either of you would like to give them a try or those listed below for the cost of postage send me a PM.

Other 81s I aso have here doing nothing:
1x Mullard
2x Mullard M8162/12AT7WA/CV4024
2x Philips Miniwatt
 
Which Mullards are you using? I've got a pair of E81CC's in at the moment which sound pretty amazing, but always interested to try out alternatives

I have ECC81 1956 B309 something getter (not a valve expert!)

@flutteringwow @MotherSky
If it's ecc81s that the LaScala uses then I have a pair of Philips Valvo 6201 here doing nothing. I've always loved the tfk sound and what they did in my Lector CDP7TL but the 6201s were a revelation in the Lector. If either of you would like to give them a try or those listed below for the cost of postage send me a PM.

Other 81s I aso have here doing nothing:
1x Mullard
2x Mullard M8162/12AT7WA/CV4024
2x Philips Miniwatt

Thanks pretty awesome of you Lurch, I've dropped you a PM!
 
@flutteringwow @MotherSky
If it's ecc81s that the LaScala uses then I have a pair of Philips Valvo 6201 here doing nothing. I've always loved the tfk sound and what they did in my Lector CDP7TL but the 6201s were a revelation in the Lector. If either of you would like to give them a try or those listed below for the cost of postage send me a PM.

Other 81s I aso have here doing nothing:
1x Mullard
2x Mullard M8162/12AT7WA/CV4024
2x Philips Miniwatt
That's an excellent offer - sadly my preamp is off for repair in the next couple of days, so the system will be out of action for a while ☹️, but I'll certainly get back to you about those Valvos as and when 👍
 
Received Lurchs valves today and done a few hours of back to back testing.

This was done on the XLR output only as it's the one and I use and the sound I know best on my 'hifi testing' playlist


Philips 6201

Holographic sounding but with a very natural presentation, a little slow and laid back like the Mullard, good vocal portrayal but something missing.

Instrument separation lacked definition, it sees somewhat 'blurred' and mushy.

Unruly over the top bottom end which dominated and couldn’t be lived with, was glad to take it out as it was just too 'flabby' and ill controlled.


Philips Miniwatt

Very similar to the 6201 in characteristic but with better instrument separation and a much more controlled bass projection, no flabbiness or boom like the 6201 but still heavy and a general sound that its not quite 'right'

Really great control on busy tracks but like the 6201, still seemed to be 'blurry' despite its 'holographic' essence


Mullard CV4024

Crystal clarity, can hear all instruments, makes you realise that the Philips with its ‘holographic’ presentation was muffling a lot of the music.

Bass is precise and clear without being flabby or overbearing, a little ‘harder’ than the Miniwats

Can hear symbols whereas with the Philips it was difficult to make ‘anything’ out just a pleasant sound but nothing special

A little ‘hard’ edged and very precise. Reminded me of exactly the same sound they gave my Prima Luna Evo400 when I lined it with these.

The most 'hifi' of the valves.


Mullard getter 1956 EQ 12AT7 A2900 B309 M8162 (no idea what it is as no markings on it anymore just what it was sold to me as)


Take the CV4024 and caress the edges with a natural cotton wool and you get this one. Crystal clear without harshness, controlled bass, ability to listen endlessly without fatigue, never craving, it takes all the qualities of the XC4024 and just makes them softer and more natural.

Everything just sounds 'right'.

So, after this, the '56 Mullard is the best valve for me for this unit.

I'm not a fan of the original valves that Aqua fit, I would have probably sold the DAC on if it were not for the Mullards, but with them fitted, it just makes it the perfect DAC, for me anyway.

Thanks so much to @Lurch for taking the time to post these over to me to have a play around with.

Not sure if these are going back to @Lurch or if @MotherSky fancies a play around, let me know guys. Would be interesting to hear someone elses thoughts after giving them a little testing.
 
Interesting thread. I have the La Scala too, and after a few months switched from supplied valves (“special selected Russian tubes”) to a pair of Genalex Gold Lion ECC81/B739 - following consultation with Cristian Anelli at Aqua who said they would be good. Certainly to my ears there was/is an improvement (as I had also noted when using one of these in a Croft integrated in the output stage some years ago). I was thinking of maybe experimenting with Philips or Mullard at some stage - but have been more than happy with the current set-up; at some stage I guess it might be a good idea to swap the Golden Lions around to balance use.
 
Interesting thread. I have the La Scala too, and after a few months switched from supplied valves (“special selected Russian tubes”) to a pair of Genalex Gold Lion ECC81/B739 - following consultation with Cristian Anelli at Aqua who said they would be good.
I have the specially selected Russian tubes in my La Scala and was under the impression he had stopped supplying the La Scala with the Gold Lion’s because of a quality control issue with them. Has QC improved? Are they now back in favour?
 
I have the specially selected Russian tubes in my La Scala and was under the impression he had stopped supplying the La Scala with the Gold Lion’s because of a quality control issue with them. Has QC improved? Are they now back in favour?
Not sure - hadn't heard about QC issues, but mine seem fine. In his reply to me in December 2021, Cristain Anelli stated: "...the russian Genalex Gold Lion is fantastic (even a bit euphonic)." The Russian tubes sounded fine, but I'm more than happy with the change to Gold Lion. Be interesting to view the Elite Audio tube-rolling event.
 
Y'all have a whole world of loveliness to experience when you bin those 'specially selected Russian valves' :)
 
I really don’t get this, when I bought my La Scala in 2020 it came with the selected Russian valves after Aqua had dropped the Genalex and now I’m hearing Cristian Anneli has endorsed use of the Genalex in December 2021! It is my belief that Aqua still provide the La Scala with the selected Russian valves so is he having a laugh? I have tried asking him straight question's on a few occasions and have not really got a straight answer.

It took a bit of time to find this again but this was a reply I got from him on 14 April 2024.

Currently, La Scala is fitted with a pair of specially selected Russian ECC81. Unfortunately, the new production Genalex no longer meet the HQ standards.

The left tube serves the RCA outputs while the tube on the right is for XLR. We recommend the selection for the 2 triodes for each tube.

Kind regards,
Cristian Anelli
 
Yes - certainly somewhat contradictory and would be interesting to get to the bottom of this. Are there any reports from elsewhere regarding the quality of the Genalex tubes?
 
There is an event at Elite Audio in May and they’re going to be doing some tube rolling and the La Scala is going to be one of the test beds, could be interesting.

I will post on the event findings.
Well that event was today and it was a lot of fun, the main show was blind testing “affordable” streamers in a knockout competition, but the tube rolling wasn’t very extensive. It involved switching the provided output valves in an Octave integrated amp with Gold Lions, actually it was the other way round as the Gold Lions were in from the start. The Gold Lions were much better. It would have been the same with the Aqua La Scala but time was short after too long a pizza break! The valves in use in the DAC were Philips 6201 and were very nice but how they compared to the standard items I cannot say.

Off topic, the best streamer other than the real high end items turned out to be the standard Eversolo DMP-A6! Whoodathunkit.
 
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Found this thread which has a lot of comments on tube rolling in the La Scala.


Re Fergus above, thanks for info re the Elite event on Saturday - I watched the video on Utube, but no mention of the tube rolling in the La Scala which they used for some of the streamers which had no internal dac: I commented on this and Mark got back to say the NOS valves which they swapped in for the stock valves were an improvement, but he didn't say which - so Fergus has answered that.
 


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