Sick of touchscreens in cars? Maybe good news is coming.

[paul rich]

EVs have a 30% weight penalty on average over their ICE equivalents.

Incidentally, where the weight comes from in modern cars is all in the cabin. Sound damping matetials, larger more padded seats, soft-touch materials, airbags, touchscreens, loudspeakers and instruments, all the little motors in the windows, seats, etc, plus the wiring loom to keep it all working.

Air Conditioning, power steering and ABS all add weight too, as do wider tyres on bigger wheels. Big wheels are one of the major contributors to "SUV" style cars being heavier than "regular" ones.

I often wondered where the weight comes from. I know its not bodyshells, I can't remember the figures now, but the difference between a Micra and a Qashqai bare body shell wouldn't have been more than about 50kg.

I'd love a bare bones version of a car that has the safety devices but none of the other tat that does not enhance the pleasurable experience I get from driving a well designed car. But I know I am a rare bird, no company would stay in business building what I want.

As an aside my car has two forward air bags, two side airbags, two overhead airbags that extend both sides of the car in the roof liner, seat belt pretensioners and pyothrusters that repel the seat to reduce the effect of whiplash. Plus ABS, traction control, collapsible steering column, etc. Its transverse engine has been pulled right back to maximise the length of the energy absorbing front crumple zone. Its seats 5 adults in comfort and has a 422 litre boot. Yet it weighs only 1450kg.

What is it? Some exotic carbon fibre tubbed/aluminium creation? Not likely, its a 2005 Volvo S80. A car built before the fashion for massive wheels and tat came along. Safe doesn't have to mean heavy.

 

[PTWild]

And another problem for touchscreens is that, in the UK where it’s right hand drive, the screen which is in the middle of the car is accessed by the left hand. So the 90% of us who are right handed are accessing the screen with the “wrong” hand.

We were going to buy a Cupra Formentor but didn’t for exactly this reason as to change the temperature, for example, required prodding a tiny screen with my left hand. Rubbish.

The Cupra Ateca has proper dials and buttons. Had one for 3 years when the leases were cheap. It was a hoot around the Swiss and Italian alps and easily swallowed all the camping gear. I was put off the Formentor for the same reason.

 

[SteveG]

According to Parkers my 2WD ICE Mercedes C-Class Estate car is 1495kg, whereas my wife's Outlander PHEV is 1845kg. So quite a lot heavier but it's bigger, 4x4 and also has a battery and electric motors to carry about.

The Mercedes controls can all be done without using a touchscreen whereas the Outlander has quite a lot of functions that do need the touchscreen. Most of the major controls have buttons though.

 

[gez]

Which one? I'm talking about the original 2003/4 model (don't make me look up a platform code). I'm 6'3", but I don't do the Boy Racer over-reclined driving position: there was no way to sit properly in it without my head touching the roof lining. I gave it a good few minutes before giving up.

I drove the next model, and it was good enough except for those awful tyres. But **** was it ugly.

The coupe only existed in the first generation of 1-series. The second generation 1-series didn't have a coupe version.

 

[gez]

This is a significant risk. We know that people will use their phones, send texts or browse social media etc, when driving even though this is illegal. Do we imagine they won’t operate cars’ menu controls while in motion if there’s a service they want to access?

Well unlike phone use, it is at least something that manufacturers could prevent by locking the screen when the car is in motion (at any speed), thus making it impossible to change anything. Of course that has other useablity issues.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I often wondered where the weight comes from. I know its not bodyshells, I can't remember the figures now, but the difference between a Micra and a Qashqai bare body shell wouldn't have been more than about 50kg.

I'd love a bare bones version of a car that has the safety devices but none of the other tat that does not enhance the pleasurable experience I get from driving a well designed car. But I know I am a rare bird, no company would stay in business building what I want.

As an aside my car has two forward air bags, two side airbags, two overhead airbags that extend both sides of the car in the roof liner, seat belt pretensioners and pyothrusters that repel the seat to reduce the effect of whiplash. Plus ABS, traction control, collapsible steering column, etc. Its transverse engine has been pulled right back to maximise the length of the energy absorbing front crumple zone. Its seats 5 adults in comfort and has a 422 litre boot. Yet it weighs only 1450kg.

What is it? Some exotic carbon fibre tubbed/aluminium creation? Not likely, its a 2005 Volvo S80. A car built before the fashion for massive wheels and tat came along. Safe doesn't have to mean heavy.

I think you’re wildly overestimating the weight of wheels and tyres.

 

[RJohan]

Trie, but the Ledwinka story is backed by the best evidence and testimony. The chances of two people independently designing that same weird rear suspension are vanishingly small.

From the Wikipedia article about Standard Superior:

"These cars had some of features of the later Volkswagen Beetle, such as the tubular chassis, rear-mounted engine and independent wheel suspension with swing axles."

Merc used swing axles from 1933 and for a long time.

Swing rear axle was invented long before anyone mentioned in this conversation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_axle

There is also the Zundapp/Porsche Type 12 which predates any orders from Adolf:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_Type_12

I'm not in anyway denying the Tatra connection, the evidence IS compelling. But, no one alive today can tell what really happened.

 

[RJohan]

I'm 6'3" as well, regular trouser inseam and a long body. I have my head striking the roof trouble with cars with sun roofs and many Asian cars.

Yeah, I'm the same composition. German cars are usually fine. But, dig this: I'm Scandinavian, Scandinavians are supposed to be tall, so Scandinavian cars must be good in this respect? Not so. I've had four SAAB's, all hair loss inducing head scrapers, and Volvos are equally bad

Which leads us to seat height adjustment. Many has it, but quite often it's about an inch or so. When your at it, making the car more expensive and everything, why not doing it properly, about 4 inch or so? Again, German cars are often properly done in this respect.

 

[davidsrsb]

Well unlike phone use, it is at least something that manufacturers could prevent by locking the screen when the car is in motion (at any speed), thus making it impossible to change anything. Of course that has other useablity issues.

I think Audi indicators are using this feature

 

[KrisW]

Yeah, I'm the same composition. German cars are usually fine. But, dig this: I'm Scandinavian, Scandinavians are supposed to be tall, so Scandinavian cars must be good in this respect? Not so. I've had four SAAB's, all hair loss inducing head scrapers, and Volvos are equally bad

Which leads us to seat height adjustment. Many has it, but quite often it's about an inch or so. When your at it, making the car more expensive and everything, why not doing it properly, about 4 inch or so? Again, German cars are often properly done in this respect.

Volvo S80... I couldn't adjust the seat in any way that didn't stick my head against the roof (no, not fitted when a sunroof). It's the biggest car that I've ever had this problem in. The older S60 was fine.

We currently have a FIAT 500 electric, and that's got pretty comfortable headroom - I'm also fine in the petrol models. I owned Alfa Romeo hatchbacks for 20 years prior to that, and all were very spacious. (the only modern Alfas I couldn't fit in were the Brera and the 4C.. if the FIAT 124 had stuck to its original plan of being launched as an Alfa model you could add that too, but it's a twin of the Mazda MX5, and my head comes out the sunroof on all of those.)

 

[davidsrsb]

My Proton Preve is great for headroom, even though Asian - the spec required the driver to be able wear a songkok - a formal hat a bit like a fez

 

[Colin L]

My Proton Preve is great for headroom, even though Asian - the spec required the driver to be able wear a songkok - a formal hat a bit like a fez

Another requirement is to be able to leave it triple-parked on Tun Razak on a Friday afternoon

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

Volvo S80... I couldn't adjust the seat in any way that didn't stick my head against the roof (no, not fitted when a sunroof). It's the biggest car that I've ever had this problem in. The older S60 was fine.

We currently have a FIAT 500 electric, and that's got pretty comfortable headroom - I'm also fine in the petrol models. I owned Alfa Romeo hatchbacks for 20 years prior to that, and all were very spacious. (the only modern Alfas I couldn't fit in were the Brera and the 4C.. if the FIAT 124 had stuck to its original plan of being launched as an Alfa model you could add that too, but it's a twin of the Mazda MX5, and my head comes out the sunroof on all of those.)

I infer that's a recent model, not the 2006 version the poster mentioned.

 

[KrisW]

@Sue Pertwee-Tyr Yes, it was the new one

 

[RJohan]

My Proton Preve is great for headroom, even though Asian - the spec required the driver to be able wear a songkok - a formal hat a bit like a fez

In really old European car magazines (pre 1965 or something) they usually comment if the headroom is enough to wear a hat while driving

 

[KrisW]

In an interview with one of the designers for Ram pickups, they mentioned that their cabin design had to leave space for the driver to get in and out without taking off their hat. (remember that Texas accounts for about a third of all pickup truck sales in the USA)

 

[Tony Lockhart]

In an interview with one of the designers for Ram pickups, they mentioned that their cabin design had to leave space for the driver to get in and out without taking off their hat. (remember that Texas accounts for about a third of all pickup truck sales in the USA)

From https://www.iseecars.com/which-states-drive-the-most-pickup-trucks-study

• Wyoming has largest share of pickup trucks, over twice the national average
• New Jersey has the lowest share of truck owners, with half the national average
• Texas has highest volume of truck sales, yet ranks 19th in share of trucks

Not that straightforward

 

[KrisW]

The manufacturers only care about how many, and on that measure Texas is the top market. The more rural states tend to have high shares, but low populations.

Why is New Jersey lowest, and not New York..? Well, there's a lot of rural NY, and as a colleague who lived there once said to me, the further North you go in New York State, the further South you go in terms of culture. Less than 50 miles from the Canadian border he talked about the local good ol'boys in their trucks, even down to the confederate flag stickers... It's mad.