Sick of touchscreens in cars? Maybe good news is coming.

[martin clark]

And as much as I’d love all cars to come in at less than 1,500kg, it would be an expensive rule to implement. A Golf can come in at 1,600kg, and a Pug 308 SW can hit over 1,800kg. It’s not as if you can sit in any of these cars, look around, and say “Yeah, I can remove 500kg by taking out that, that and that. They’re not needed, waste of space and money.”

This.

Interesting aside - my old beast, an e39 5-series, electric seats, ..vs new Mini countryman: having giggled seeng one such park next to mine, I looked Them up: the Mini averages 120mm taller, 25-50mm wider in body, spec-dependant. The Mini is 350mm shorter- but worse packaging in the interior, by far... cramped in interior width, and footwells; and (depending on options ) between 100Kg lighter, to 50Kg heavier: yet it counts as a 'subcompact SUV'. wtaf?

'Safety' as an argument, only goes so far; and when you count the massive % increase in use of light materials (usu. plastics - as much as 30% of a car these days, following recent research for other reasons) - there's no small amount that accrues from 'feature bloat'.

 

[KrisW]

Plastics aren't light, they're cheap. They're not used in the load bearing parts of the vehicle because high strength steels have far better strength per kg (better than aluminium too, but they are more expensive than Al), but some makers do use specialised "plastics" in crash structures to absorb impact energy. Most plastic is used in cabin trim pieces, and it's either ABS (hard, smooth, snaps if you bend it) or Polypropylene (textured, can bend slightly) because of regulations on end of life recyclability. Sometimes the PP is mixed with talc to give it a more solid feeling to the touch, sometimes it's made as a foam for "soft touch" pieces. PVCs used to be used heavily in car interiors, but not any more: they're not recyclable, and there were also concerns about the health effects of residual gases from their manufacture.

The awful packaging of the MINI Countryman isn't entirely down to its use of plastics, it's also a deficiency of the architecture used to design it and the choice of a low roofline. A Jeep Renegade has cavernous interior space compared to the Countryman, for the same footprint. The Countryman is nowhere near as bad as the RR Evoque, though, probably the worst-packaged 4-door in the market. Both the RR and MINI are examples of what happens when you take a set of parts and systems designed for bigger cars and try to make a smaller model with them: It's not just SUVs either, the original BMW 1 was unbelievably cramped, as BMW did it as a low risk project to test the market for a hatchback, so they took everything in the existing 3-series and squashed into the size of a Golf. I actually couldn't test drive it because I couldn't find a way to sit in it that was comfortable (had no issues with the 3)

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I had no issues getting comfortable in a 1-Series coupe, and I’m 6ft 4, 100kg. Yes, it was cosy in there, but I liked driving that thing except for the awful runflat tyres.

 

[gez]

I had no issues getting comfortable in a 1-Series coupe, and I’m 6ft 4, 100kg. Yes, it was cosy in there, but I liked driving that thing except for the awful runflat tyres.

I'm biased (as I drive one) but personally I think they're a perfectly sized car for someone without the need to accomodate a family.

The run flats are as you say horrendous though, which is why i dumped them as soon as my first tyre came up as an advisement in an MOT.

 

[TheDecameron]

I had no issues getting comfortable in a 1-Series coupe, and I’m 6ft 4, 100kg. Yes, it was cosy in there, but I liked driving that thing except for the awful runflat tyres.

Me too. Had one briefly 10 years ago and like many German compact cars, it’s built to accommodate tall drivers.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Me too. Had one briefly 10 years ago and like many German compact cars, it’s built to accommodate talk drivers.

Yeah, I usually talk to myself a lot while I’m driving

 

[KrisW]

I had no issues getting comfortable in a 1-Series coupe, and I’m 6ft 4, 100kg. Yes, it was cosy in there, but I liked driving that thing except for the awful runflat tyres.

Which one? I'm talking about the original 2003/4 model (don't make me look up a platform code). I'm 6'3", but I don't do the Boy Racer over-reclined driving position: there was no way to sit properly in it without my head touching the roof lining. I gave it a good few minutes before giving up.

I drove the next model, and it was good enough except for those awful tyres. But **** was it ugly.

 

[RJohan]

Not flawless. I often catch mine out in the wrong gear for what I ask the car to do, and the move-off from standstill can be vague, which makes a brisk takeoff into a gap in traffic inadvisable. And long descents of steep hills usually gather more speed than I want because the ‘box holds on to too high a gear.

Just a few examples of my current car, which I like very much but the gearbox could be better.

Well, my current car is a Porsche with a manual box. There are still things it won't do that I might want...

 

[RJohan]

This thread is quite amusing... several posters who think their idea of optimal vehicle design (which is about 25 years out of date) should be foisted upon everybody... just buy an old car if that's what you want... it's not like there aren't plenty out there... and leave the rest of the world to move on. Anyway I'm out as so often on pfm with threads about anything new there is no appetite for progress.

Very well. But I might meet someone who's on the wrong side of the road just because that person is occupied with finding the heated seat 'switch' hidden in a submenu somewhere that's been moved around during the last service (nowadays probably called upgrade).
And, yes, my current car is 19 year old and don't wish for a newer one. Honestly. But it might be a bit faster and a bit less noisy and it could even be an EV (if it wasn't for the charging hassle). But no way I'm getting a car full of silly screens and no real buttons.

 

[RJohan]

Porsche didn't design the Type 3, unless you count his design of the Type 1 (Beetle), upon which the 3 was heavily based.

Even the Type 1 wasn't a Porsche design. Credit rightly belongs to Hans Ledwinka of Tatra, whose Model 87 was pretty much copied for the KdF-Wagen. Porsche and Ledwinka were friends, and so Porsche did ask his other friend and client, Adolf Hitler, about making a payment to Tatra in acknowledgement of the debt owed in the design. According to Porsche, Hitler assured him it would be "taken care of", which it was, in a way, when Germany invaded Czechoslovakia and nationalised Tatra.

In the 1960s, Volkswagen made a 10 million DM payment to the Czechoslovak Communist government in settlement of the rights to the original Beetle design.

There is a multitude of versions of how the beetle came to be. My favorite is the Standard Superior connection. Or the one where Hitler scribed some lines on a napkin and told Ferdinand that's what he wanted. Or...

 

[RJohan]

Autodimming mirrors? Oh yeah! Why would you not want them on your road car?
Hidden menu in the LED screen to set how warm the seats and steering wheel go, and for how long? Yes, that makes sense. As it would do for every other 'never used while driving' selection.

I had a couple of cars that dimmed the rear mirrors with it's own free will. Meaning: It didn't when I wanted it to, like driving with a setting sun from the rear. And there wasn't even a manual override.

There are people who will fiddle with the submenus to do just that WHILE DRIVING.

 

[PaulMB]

I had a couple of cars that dimmed the rear mirrors with it's own free will. Meaning: It didn't when I wanted it to, like driving with a setting sun from the rear. And there wasn't even a manual override.

There are people who will fiddle with the submenus to do just that WHILE DRIVING.

After I bought my 1999 528i I believed, for 4 years, that the little lever to make the mirror "click" up was broken/lost. Then I was informed that it did it automatically, which maybe it does, but I haven't noticed, so it probably does.
My 1987 911 has a little lever and the mirror "clicks" up when I want it to. I swear that for 20 years I never once thought "Oh, how I wish it were automatic. So exhausting, so difficult to lift my right arm and "click" the mirror!"

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

There are people who will fiddle with the submenus to do just that WHILE DRIVING.

This is a significant risk. We know that people will use their phones, send texts or browse social media etc, when driving even though this is illegal. Do we imagine they won’t operate cars’ menu controls while in motion if there’s a service they want to access?

 

[James]

I had a couple of cars that dimmed the rear mirrors with it's own free will. Meaning: It didn't when I wanted it to, like driving with a setting sun from the rear. And there wasn't even a manual override.

My auto-dimming mirrors have never not dimmed when there is glare from behind. But I wish the auto-dipping on the passenger side would be quicker when reversing into a park.

The other fantastic feature I cannot get enough of is adaptive headlights that adjusts the main beam in response to traffic oncoming or ahead of me. Not bad for a 2013 car.

No touchscreens though. All switches are tactile. Just the way I like it.

 

[gintonic]

My auto-dimming mirrors have never not dimmed when there is glare from behind.

exactly how mine behave on my 2019 car. I wouldn't be without auto-dimming mirrors

The other fantastic feature I cannot get enough of is adaptive headlights that adjusts the main beam in response to traffic oncoming or ahead of me

I agree - a great feature


I also like the rain sensing auto wipers

 

[KrisW]

There is a multitude of versions of how the beetle came to be. My favorite is the Standard Superior connection. Or the one where Hitler scribed some lines on a napkin and told Ferdinand that's what he wanted. Or...

Trie, but the Ledwinka story is backed by the best evidence and testimony. The chances of two people independently designing that same weird rear suspension are vanishingly small.

 

[SteveG]

I don't recall the last car I had that didn't have auto-dimming mirrors. I don't notice them in use so they must be working fine, so it's one of the improvements I do like. I also like auto headlights and find they work very well in practice.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

Which one? I'm talking about the original 2003/4 model (don't make me look up a platform code). I'm 6'3", but I don't do the Boy Racer over-reclined driving position: there was no way to sit properly in it without my head touching the roof lining. I gave it a good few minutes before giving up.

I drove the next model, and it was good enough except for those awful tyres. But **** was it ugly.

2011 (E82) so still first generation.

 

[davidsrsb]

I'm 6'3", but I don't do the Boy Racer over-reclined driving position: there was no way to sit properly in it without my head touching the roof lining. I gave it a good few minutes before giving up.

I'm 6'3" as well, regular trouser inseam and a long body. I have my head striking the roof trouble with cars with sun roofs and many Asian cars.

 

[Suffolk Tony]

The other fantastic feature I cannot get enough of is adaptive headlights that adjusts the main beam in response to traffic oncoming or ahead of me. Not bad for a 2013 car.

I've had this feature on a few cars, and generally it works well, but I spend a fair amount of time driving a busy, hilly 'A' road in the dark with lots of lorry traffic. Because the lorry cabs are set up high and the headlights low, the system ends up dazzling the poor old lorry drivers before the main headlights peek up over the brow of the hill and trigger the dipping function.

Me, I love all the assistive devices - adaptive cruise, lane-keeping assist, blind spot warning mirrors, heated everything. All the controls I'm likely to use when driving are on buttons or dials.