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Shure cartridge query

Craig B said:
Sounds about right; 25 to 30 quid was circa $50 to $60 back then. As much as I've always liked VMS20E, I'd describe switching to that from any Shure ED as a lateral move; slight downgrade even.
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I rate the VMS20E as considerably better than the Shure. An upgrade from an M75 to a VMS20 was about the most common cart upgrade I can remember there being at the time.
 
a lot of the budget systems had a slightly ragged top end and the cultured vms20e was less likely to exacerbate it than an m75ed especially with ortofons additional 220 picofarad loading chip between the cartridge terminals.
Rgds
Stuart
 
As of the Shure 1978 product catalogue, there were seven M75 variants, with the ED Type 2 being in the 'Deluxe High Trackability Series', and having the same nude tip as V15 Type II & III. The EJ version might be seen off by VMS 20E MkII, what with the latter's .0001" smaller minor radius (R/r 18/8µm), however, the ED tip is pushing near fine-line resolution by comparison.

Loading is almost a none argument, as both the Shure and Ortofon are circa 400pF optimum. The 220pF loading chip that used to come with VMS was intended for optional use with amplifier inputs with low input capacitance (not many back then); granted, one could be used to help liven* a dull sounding system should the pF load be low.

* By bringing the electrical resonant frequency down, whilst at the same time increasing its amplitude.
 
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Much as stylus profile and quality are vital ( :D ) to a cartridges performance, there is a lot more to the whole than just this.
The Ortofon VMS30E MkII (stylus will go straight on a 20 body) is one of the all time great MM's IMHO and I would take one over a V15 II or III all day long! Some say it's an equal to the 2M Black...
It has a fine line nude stylus and lower compliance, with heavier tracking weight, than the 20. Tracks at about 1.4 - 1.7g as opposed to about 1.2 - 1.4g for the 20... IIRC!
 
Arkless Electronics said:
The Ortofon VMS30E MkII (stylus will go straight on a 20 body) is one of the all time great MM's IMHO and I would take one over a V15 II or III all day long! Some say it's an equal to the 2M Black...
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I doubt the VMS30MkII will sound anything like the 2M Black. Pretty sure it will be quite a bit warmer (fuller lows, less forensic top-end). Owned the VMS - never had the Black.
 
In my experience, the VMS 20 MkII (the one on my B790) does sound lively at the top. My V15VMR always sounded boring although very detailed.
The M75ED was one of the worst carts I ever had. The upper midrange dip and sinking treble were unacceptable. I doubt a fancy stylus would change this, would it?
 
Arkless Electronics said:
Much as stylus profile and quality are vital ( :D ) to a cartridges performance, there is a lot more to the whole than just this.
The Ortofon VMS30E MkII (stylus will go straight on a 20 body) is one of the all time great MM's IMHO and I would take one over a V15 II or III all day long! Some say it's an equal to the 2M Black...
It has a fine line nude stylus and lower compliance, with heavier tracking weight, than the 20. Tracks at about 1.4 - 1.7g as opposed to about 1.2 - 1.4g for the 20... IIRC!
Click to expand...

The M2Black is about as close to the V15III as I've tried, but I still prefer the V15.
 
chartz said:
In my experience, the VMS 20 MkII (the one on my B790) does sound lively at the top. My V15VMR always sounded boring although very detailed.
The M75ED was one of the worst carts I ever had. The upper midrange dip and sinking treble were unacceptable. I doubt a fancy stylus would change this, would it?
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Depends on the details like loading, tip mass, etc. Sadly, there is a lack of data on such points (pun alert!) these days.
 
Not wishing to start anything but I use an A&R P77 with Shure HE tip and my Escoed Troika is in its box. The Italian guy who retipped it reckons the Shure hyper elliptical is his favourite tip, his best compromise between detail and warmth but it isn’t always the panacea. He believes best results are a balancing act of tip, cantilever and the size and shape of the magnet. He’s the only person I’ve heard mention the importance of the magnet. A spare P77 is with him being “breathed on “ at present.
 
Chris said:
Not wishing to start anything but I use an A&R P77 with Shure HE tip and my Escoed Troika is in its box. The Italian guy who retipped it reckons the Shure hyper elliptical is his favourite tip, his best compromise between detail and warmth but it isn’t always the panacea. He believes best results are a balancing act of tip, cantilever and the size and shape of the magnet. He’s the only person I’ve heard mention the importance of the magnet. A spare P77 is with him being “breathed on “ at present.
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I had a P77 when they were brand new and although it wasn't bad I fail to see why they are so regarded today... rather too "warm and cuddly" and lacking detail is my recollection.
 
My exact experience of the P77! Boring boring boring! The body is still used today by the way, among others by Sumiko. A recent review in HFW by Noel Keywood confims this: same old dip and recessed treble.
 
krenzler said:
I doubt the VMS30MkII will sound anything like the 2M Black. Pretty sure it will be quite a bit warmer (fuller lows, less forensic top-end). Owned the VMS - never had the Black.
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"some say" Is what I said.... Never had a Black either but was impressed with ones I have heard.
 
Only a slight OT drift from:

'I've got a vintage Shure M75B Type 2, why am I enjoying listening to it more than I do my posh OM30 Super suppository?'.​
 
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