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Should there be a consequence for vaccine refusers?

windhoek said:
One of my colleagues has said she can't take the Phizer vaccination but, when the time comes, the AZ vaccine will okay; she didn't go into it but I'm guessing it's due to an existing medical condition. I hope she won't be deliberately disadvantaged and/or actively penalised in the meantime.

As for me, I'll be giving the vaccines a miss altogether on ethical grounds as they're not vegan-friendly. There may well be consequences for me in that I might catch covid, if I haven't already done so, and die forthwith; I might even get off with long-term ill-health in the form of long-covid. But should I be deliberately disadvantaged and/or actively penalised by choosing not to be vaccinated on ethical grounds? I don't think so and I sincerenly hope not.
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Are you sure you are 100% vegan?
If you have taken any form of medication then the capsules
of many have animal derived gelatin.
 
windhoek said:
One of my colleagues has said she can't take the Phizer vaccination but, when the time comes, the AZ vaccine will okay; she didn't go into it but I'm guessing it's due to an existing medical condition. I hope she won't be deliberately disadvantaged and/or actively penalised in the meantime.

As for me, I'll be giving the vaccines a miss altogether on ethical grounds as they're not vegan-friendly. There may well be consequences for me in that I might catch covid, if I haven't already done so, and die forthwith; I might even get off with long-term ill-health in the form of long-covid. But should I be deliberately disadvantaged and/or actively penalised by choosing not to be vaccinated on ethical grounds? I don't think so and I sincerenly hope not.
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You state that the vaccines are not vegan friendly. How do you know that? Apart from those already approved for use in UK there are many others in development and/or in trials. What about those?
 
My parents (75 and 78) are both recovering from Covid. They are averse to receiving the vaccine as they likely already have immunity that will last some time, and more importantly are avoiding the scenario (real to them) of being a guinea pig for old person+covid+vaccine testing. Say what you want, it's their life and they are managing Risk as best they see fit.

& apropos of nothing, this fcking shambles of a government, plus the eternally-depressing BBC, has put a large dent in the collective optimism that this country used to have. One day soon we'll have beaten this and be getting back to Normal. A few idiots along the way are to be expected.
 
There may well be some mitigating factors for some people not being able to have the vaccine (medically or ethically) but I am personally happy to have it. each to their own.

We shouldn’t forget that we all have a right to refuse but I can imagine that most business and, especially healthcare or retail and general customer facing situations will require their workforce to have the vaccine?

the uncomfortable thing about the current situation is that everyone can potentially become very ill and be left with lasting problems or worse die. Considering the gravity of the situation and the fact that this pandemic doesn’t discriminate between anyone should be a deciding factor. Personally, i prefer the idea of the mass vaccination.
 
A bit of swelling at the injection site, Jesus did they never have a TB jab, that goes off like a Canon, swelling, site bleeds, scabs and scarring. But you know what, no one dies of TB anymore, if they've been vaccinated.

Edited for clarity, cos you know nit pickers.
 
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I am already receiving adverts for holidays and even Haj, requiring evidence of vaccination
No vaccination is going to mean a travel free life
 
Dogberry said:
Are you sure you are 100% vegan?
If you have taken any form of medication then the capsules
of many have animal derived gelatin.
Click to expand...

I became vegan last year during the lockdown and although I started out on the food front, I've now realised that it goes beyond food, as you illustrate. Becoming a vegan is a process it seems just as much it is a decision.
 
AndrewG said:
You state that the vaccines are not vegan friendly. How do you know that? Apart from those already approved for use in UK there are many others in development and/or in trials. What about those?
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I read the summary of testing documents (all readily available online) released by the vaccine manufacturers - documents for the Phizer vaccine as well as for the AZ vaccine - and they tell you clearly upfront that animals and which animals, in particular, were involved in the testing process. Apparently, it's a legal requirement to test all medicines on animals first before they can be trialled on humans so there's no vaccine on the horizon for me, as it were.

I only became vegan last year during the first lockdown and although I started out on the food front, I've now realised that it goes beyond food. Becoming a vegan is a process it seems just as much as it is a decision.
 
sq225917 said:
A bit of swelling at the injection site, Jesus did they never have a TB jab, that goes off like a Canon, swelling, site bleeds, scabs and scarring. But you know what, no one dies of TB anymore.
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Not true at all. Still hundreds of people die of TB in UK each year with many others contracting it.
Also millions each year world wide:
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis
However, this still should not stop people getting vaccinated.
 
Suppose a large proportion of people under 40 say decide not to have the vaccine. They reason that their chances of a serious disease is low and death lower still, they’ll almost certainly recover in the end even if they develop the long form, it’s only like a cold or flu, they don’t want to be guinea pigs for a new medication, they don’t trust medics anyway, even less so big pharma, it’s inconvenient, they may have a nasty adverse reaction, they don’t like injections etc. What are the consequences, assuming very few people in older cohorts decline?
 
windhoek said:
I read the summary of testing documents (all readily available online) released by the vaccine manufacturers - documents for the Phizer vaccine as well as for the AZ vaccine - and they tell you clearly upfront that animals and which animals, in particular, were involved in the testing process. Apparently, it's a legal requirement to test all medicines on animals first before they can be trialled on humans so there's no vaccine on the horizon for me, as it were.

I only became vegan last year during the first lockdown and although I started out on the food front, I've now realised that it goes beyond food. Becoming a vegan is a process it seems just as much as it is a decision.
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Which means that you will no longer take any medicine ever again?
 
Vaccine refusers are nuts.

I want my two jabs. My medical condition (I had a brain stroke) puts me high on the list.

But the shortage of supply here says otherwise. I'll have to wait for next summer at best.
 
Spike said:
Which means that you will no longer take any medicine ever again?
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That may well be the case. The vaccine issue around animal testing was a recent, very surprising discovery so I'm still figuring out what that means going forwards. For example, the next time I buy multivitamins I now know I need to make sure that they're vegan friendly. I also know that the next time I see my GP for anything I'll need to mention that I'm vegan as there may well be options out there that are suitable for vegans but which are not readily offered for whatever reason. Like I say, I've got some figuring out to do.
 
There are other logical alternatives than the inhumane ones above.

Yes you can have the right to refuse but if you contract COVID and require NHS treatment then perhaps you are refused it, why should you be able to freely go against the country’s mandated requirements. Have we really become such a snowflake nation of whinging and self centred my-rights individuals. I can’t help but think our predecessors would be ashamed of us (and I mean all ages not the young who are often blamed) for not sucking it up and respecting the right to govern. We have not had to go through what they did.

less draconian would be to place refusers who contract COVID go into a secondary priority queue behind those who were vaccinated ie, they get the spare capacity of the NHS at the time. Why should refusers be able to dictate.

third option is they have to pay for treatment, US style. Why should the government and NHS require us to be vaccinated only for us to refuse it then expect them to treat us at their expense because we stuck two fingers up at them.
 
What shall we do with people who drive above the speed limit?
What shall we do with people who smoke?
What shall we do with people who eat fat food?
What shall we do with people who drink to much?
What shall we do with audiophiles/audiofooles who waist a lot of money on black boxes?
Etc. etc. etc.

They are idiots, but we live in a free world with no laws against being just that.
 
^ We take their licence away.
We ban them smoking where it can affect others.
Nothing wrong with fat in food in a balanced diet. Some people are genetically prone to obesity: a complex one.
Point taken but drink is an embedded part of UK culture for a thousand years. There are some sad results but they are a small minority.

Idiots can be idiots up to the line where it affects others.
 
As more and more folks get vaccinated and the anti-vaxxers realise their fears over side-effects are unfounded, most of them will eventually come across to the dark side & get jabbed. Although we might have the freedom to refuse the vaccination (and as is often the case, their "freedom" is to others' detriment), employers, hotels, airlines etc. can insist only those who have been vaccinated can be employed by them or can avail themselves of their services.
 
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