Server vs streamer; do you need both?

[firedog]

Streamer vs Server (computer direct to DAC):
1. Physical setup doesn't allow direct connection of server to DAC; network required. Server can be several meters away or even in a different part of home;
2. Server is also used for other uses than music playback; therefore not necessarily logical that it should be physically near hi-fi setup;
3. Some stand alone streamers allow convenient access to multiple forms of playback softare: Roon, LMS, HQP NAA, UpNP, Audirvana, etc. Some users prefer this kind of setup.
4. Noise: streamers are generally fanless/silent. Servers mostly aren't. So server is remote.
5. SQ: many claim that a streamer that's optimized just to do audio and is a simple device gives better SQ than direct connection to a "noisy" computer.
6. Processing: some people are doing very CPU intensive DSP, Room Correction, and upsampling. So you do that at the level of the server (a powerful PC) and have the streamer just for playback of the processed audio stream.
7. If you have a very large collection, the streamer often is very sluggish handling it, or can't handle it at all. Files on a server computer solves that problem.

 

[webster]

The line between server and streamer has become rather indistinct in the last decade or so. There are both servers and streamers which are capable of producing great sound. Some combinations of server and streamer provide more functionality than any server or streamer on its own, so there is a practical case for having both in some cases, but probably not an “audio” one (assuming that “audio” means sound quality here).

What advantages do you see in adding a streamer to an Innuos Zen for example?
I'm using the USB out direct to a Dac - very happy with sq and whilst Orange Squeeze might not be last word in remote music apps it's certainly decent enough.

 

[Del monaco]

If you are happy with your streaming service and all the music can be found there then I'm not sure why you would need a Server. Just use a Streamer with built in Qobuz or Tidal capabilities and you're done.

Roon is just a capable solution if you have multiple source based solutions where Roon then collates all your music from multiple inputs into a nice graphical user interface (GUI).

This is the reason I bought the Yamaha D amp but there is an issue with albums greying out that I am told Yamaha are working on. I therefore still use LMS through Pi as there are no such issue. The sound quality is equal through both though so looking forward to the interface correction.

 

[simon g]

Hope you can help with the following question:

What is the (audio) benefit to having both a server and a streamer and why do you build a system with the former if a streamer can still give you complete access to music stored on an external drive or a streaming service like Quobuz ?’

but this is asked in the following context:

• I can plug an SSD/NAS drive into the back of say a Naim NDX2 or Auralic Vega (or any other streaming device notwithstanding the fact that most of them seem to also be pre-amps that I don’t need)
• I can plug an ethernet cable into the back of both and access streaming services

As far as I can tell, the main reason you would have a server is so you can add a Roon Core to it rather than using your laptop.

What have I missed? I’m sure there’s lots.

To address the above:

Firstly, the Naim NDX2 is not a preamp. It does have variable out, but that's mainly there to comply with Airplay specs. It is not recommended to use the variable out facility as a pre. It has fixed line level output via RCA or DIN, selectable from the app.

A NAS is a network Attached Storage device. As the name suggests, this is storage that sits on your network; you can't plug that in to the NDX2. The NDX2 would have access to files on a NAS, so long as there is a UPNP server application on it.

The NDX2 can also act as a server, to other devices on your network.

You can plug in a USB stick and it'll play very well indeed. However, the interface/usability to the USB input is not as slick as the server input.

If you're going to rip more albums, then if you just plug a USB stick in you'll have to be updating it regularly. If you rip to your server then that's all the action that is required.

You can have an easy back up strategy with a server.

Reading between the lines, I gather that you're not too familiar with all this malarky? If so, then seriously consider a NDX2 with a UnitiCore. Some will say its expensive, but as it has a linear power supply inside, can take whatever drive you select internally (preferably a SSD, as then it's silent) and is a dedicated network player (server) then it is actually less expensive than an Innuos, for example. It also performs better, IMO&E. It is absolutely fine for ripping CDs and does an excellent job. The inbuilt meta data editor is more limited than others and might perhpas not best suit a large classical collection. But for most people, it's slot the CD in, monitor the rip via the app, and job done. Back up is a matter of plugging in a drive and using the app. It works extremely well with the NCX2, as you might expect. Mine sits on a small table with my router in the hall and just gets on with it. Indeed, it doesn't even need to come out of standby to serve files. The NDX2/UnitCore plus Naim app is very fast and slick, IMO&E. The app will be the key to your enjoyment; trust me on that!

 

[darrenyeats]

Having your own server makes sense if you're purchasing particular masterings, or ripping your DVDs, DVD-As and the like - stuff you wouldn't be able to get from streaming services. Also see what firedog wrote four posts up. Probably depends on your listening habits more than anything.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

What advantages do you see in adding a streamer to an Innuos Zen for example?
I'm using the USB out direct to a Dac - very happy with sq and whilst Orange Squeeze might not be last word in remote music apps it's certainly decent enough.

For you specifically? Perhaps not much. For someone else it might solve a problem with mechanical noise, it could enable them to create a second system without duplicating their music library or it might enable a feature which is not provided by the Zen, like access to a broader range of streaming services. Depending on exactly what streamer we are talking about, it might also provide better sound.

 

[zippy]

...
Another reason is that local files sound better than Qobuz or Tidal on my system.

Main reason for me to have a 'server' (in fact my desktop PC running Asset UPnP) was that the PC has all my CD's copied onto it.
I have to say though that these days it isn't really necessary to have a server because as said above you can get pretty much everything from the likes of Qobuz etc.
On my system is makes no difference to the sound whether I stream from my PC or from Qobuz and in fact Qobuz should theoretically sound better as the bit rate is higher.

 

[webster]

Main reason for me to have a 'server' (in fact my desktop PC running Asset UPnP) was that the PC has all my CD's copied onto it.
I have to say though that these days it isn't really necessary to have a server because as said above you can get pretty much everything from the likes of Qobuz etc.
On my system is makes no difference to the sound whether I stream from my PC or from Qobuz and in fact Qobuz should theoretically sound better as the bit rate is higher.

My experience is that when I was using a laptop I couldn't detect a difference between local files and Qobuz/Tidal but since moving over to the Innuos local files (a mixture of ripped CD's and hi-res downloads) to my ear sound superior to streaming services.

 

[clivem2]

I have around 1,000 ripped CDs on a server which is accessed by my 3 systems each with a streamer. I also use Qobuz, I could access a lot of my 1,000 digital albums via Qobuz but a proportion of them differ from the versions I deliberately purchased. Mixing served music with Qobuz works for myself. Both local music on a server (or a usb drive for a single system) and streaming services have their place.

 

[Heckyman]

In my case, Yes.

I rarely bother with files these days and use Spotify, Qobuz, BBC radio etc. I have an Allo Pi based endpoint / "streamer" feeding my DAC.

I run PiCorePlayer as the Pi OS.

PiCorePlayer has an option to simultaneously run the Logitech Media Server on the Pi but I don't do this. Instead I run the server on a networked iMac. It just sounds better this way, and also better than iMac connected direct to DAC.

YMMV, obvs.

 

[9designs]

For 10+ years I’ve run a QNAP NAS which has Twonky Media server software running on it, as it was free. The NAS has all our data stored in it,pictures, music, files, CAD data, nothing saved local on laptops or desk PC. Then 3 rooms have Linn DS streamer accessing the NAS for local ripped CD’s, or internet streaming services like Tidal, plus radio stations etc. They will also sync and play the same source, or share a local input like a turntable to the other rooms. Just pick up an iPad and choose what to listen to and where, nothing to boot up or fiddle with none of this Pi stuff or local USB juggling.... just saying LOL

 

[Del monaco]

In my case, Yes.

I rarely bother with files these days and use Spotify, Qobuz, BBC radio etc. I have an Allo Pi based endpoint / "streamer" feeding my DAC.

I run PiCorePlayer as the Pi OS.

PiCorePlayer has an option to simultaneously run the Logitech Media Server on the Pi but I don't do this. Instead I run the server on a networked iMac. It just sounds better this way, and also better than iMac connected direct to DAC.

YMMV, obvs.

I run it on the Pi because there was no difference running it in any other PC.In what way did it sound better?

 

[Heckyman]

I run it on the Pi because there was no difference running it in any other PC. I. What way did it sound better?

In the same way a better digital cable sounds better than an inferior one. Of course, not everyone hears such things. I’m just reporting what I heard, in my system.

 

[Del monaco]

In the same way a better digital cable sounds better than an inferior one. Of course, not everyone hears such things. I’m just reporting what I heard, in my system.

I wasn’t actually asking that. I was interested specifically in the difference. What improved?

 

[Heckyman]

I wasn’t actually asking that. I was interested specifically in the difference. What improved?

It’s been a while since I did the comparison and I’ve since changed my DAC. But as I remember it was subtle improvements of the usual things: soundstage, bass and general sense of ease...

 

[Del monaco]

It just made me want to listen again so thanks for that.

 

[Dave-L]

I run it on the Pi because there was no difference running it in any other PC.In what way did it sound better?

I also run LMS on the same Pi as Picoreplayer and don't hear any difference either compared to running LMS on another computer.

 

[Heckyman]

It just made me want to listen again so thanks for that.

I should test again myself again too, but I haven't gotten around to it as I don't think it's likely to be all that important in the grand scale of things.

On a related note, I'd say going from Moode/RoipeeXL (these two OS's sounded the same to me) to PiCorePlayer was a bigger step up than whether PiCorePlayer was run with separate vs integrated LMS. Also some PiCorePlayer tweaks seemed quite worthwhile, such as reducing the CPU speed and changing the Ethernet driver configs.

I'm in two minds about this kind of tweaking. Although it's free except your time and can sometimes be interesting/fun, it's not going to make up for poor power supplies, isolation etc, and it can also distract from the main point of simply enjoying the music.

 

[webster]

and it can also distract from the main point of simply enjoying the music.

Exactly that - find a setup you're happy with and just enjoy.

 

[Del monaco]

I should test again myself again too, but I haven't gotten around to it as I don't think it's likely to be all that important in the grand scale of things.

On a related note, I'd say going from Moode/RoipeeXL (these two OS's sounded the same to me) to PiCorePlayer was a bigger step up than whether PiCorePlayer was run with separate vs integrated LMS. Also some PiCorePlayer tweaks seemed quite worthwhile, such as reducing the CPU speed and changing the Ethernet driver configs.

I'm in two minds about this kind of tweaking. Although it's free except your time and can sometimes be interesting/fun, it's not going to make up for poor power supplies, isolation etc, and it can also distract from the main point of simply enjoying the music.

I liked Ropieee XL when I used it but Picoreplayer is equally nice and I can use Jivelite for the screen. The tweaks are interesting and Archimago created a similar tweak called CRAAP settings I believe though I can’t say I heard any great change. Agree totally about distraction.