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Seperate Ring Mains - What to buy?

Discussion in 'audio' started by cliffyboy, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. cliffyboy

    cliffyboy Exposure Fan

    Fortunately the L/L is a friend of min who has already agreed to the changes, which will only include the additional CU in the cupboard where the current CU is. 2 to 4 holes within the wooden flooring and whatever wall sockets are required.

    Again I typed up the AST so am fully aware, however with him also being into his Hifi, will benefit from it when I finally move out.
     
  2. cliffyboy

    cliffyboy Exposure Fan

    A big thanks to you all so far.

    So if understood, I feel that this is the solution:

    1. New CU (with at least 4 breakers x 2 for the mono XVI and then one each for the two olson distribution blocks.
    2. Relevant cabling from CU to designated socket points.
    3. I dont quite understand the radial aspect, i assume it means that for each breaker, there will be a cable run back and forth to teh relevant wall socket???? is this correct?
    4. I had thought MK sockets, but now note that Crabtree sockets are best advised. Solely down to reduced quality of the MK stock.

    Cable sizes TBH again I do not quite understand what differences they make, however am of the opinion of being OTT rather than not.

    Just out of interest as per my original post and a distance of circa 8 metres to from CU to wall sockets, what kind of cost am I likely to entail?
     
  3. trancera

    trancera pfm Member

    Radial is a single cable to the socket, ie the opposite of a ring which continues. SO you just need 32 M of cable

    Doing it radially ought to make it easier to use the larger cable, having only one wire in the connection.

    No harm putting bigger cable in while its opened, as long as it meets specs.
     
  4. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Agreed; separate radial circuits (often erroneously called spurs) make much more sense than a ring, esp. if you're having a dedicated c.u. In this case (as aforesaid) even 10mm2 will fit into a socket.

    If you go this route install separate (32 amp.)RCBOs; one per cable. pricey, but possibly safer and better. May be overkill, but I don't stint where the primary source is concerned ! :)

    B.t.w., they're called radials 'cos they're like radii (of a circle) or spokes in a wheeel, if you like. They 'radiate' from a single point. Circuit because you only need one positive and one return to form a circuit. (Sorry, pedantry caused by 40 years at the chalk-face. :))
     
  5. dave thomas

    dave thomas pfm Member

    What is the advantage of a spur over a ring?
     
  6. trancera

    trancera pfm Member

    This question comes up sooooo often I wonder if there ought to be a guide, with levels, pros, cons and rough costs. Simple diagram of each so people can print and show electrician. Recommended products eg sockets.

    Levels something like:

    0. Get your fuse done.
    1. Seperate breaker for the hifi with its own ring. Decent sockets.Cheap
    2. Seperate breaker for each radial.
    3. As above + ?
     
  7. Mike42

    Mike42 Heard it all before...

    Each socket has its own dedicated connection to the CU.

    I personally find the whole dedicated mains thing a little overrated. After all, it’s all connected to the same fuse and meter. Why would the ‘noise’ on the mains stop at the CU?
     
  8. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    None whatsoever. A SPUR is a cable coming off an existing circuit, and is therefore not dedicated in the accepted sense. See my reply in above post.
     
  9. Fox

    Fox The sound of one hoof clopping

    Both very different solutions to the assisted conveyance of unwilling animals

    Spur
    [​IMG]

    Ring
    [​IMG]

    arf!

    (sorry)
     
  10. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    You're talking about the main fuse, I guess. Have to agree that any mains 'noise' is likely to be present on a dedicated installation too. However, this was never one of the potential benefits accruing from such a system.

    Isolation from (appliance) noise on domestic ring(s), however, is at the very least, diminished. In my case it was virtually eliminated.
     
  11. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Brilliant ! Says it all, really.:D
     
  12. dave thomas

    dave thomas pfm Member

  13. Sovereign

    Sovereign pfm Member

    Dave, Russ is somewhat of a pioneer on the effect mains has on Hifi, however he is limited by the ring mains he sells,
     
  14. Sovereign

    Sovereign pfm Member

    Well said Mike
    I hate sockets though, you can have a 16mmT&E radial from its dedicated MCBO and it is all bottle necked in a tiny piece of fuse wire in a plug. Or even worse is people put all their hifi plugs in a strip extension and that extension block of maybe 6 pieces of kit has a fused plug of it's own, so we have fuses on top of fuses which is totally unnecessary and snarls up everything, if we have to use plugs and sockets we should use round pin plugs that don't require a fuse, and before anyone spouts danger ! yes it does meet every last item of regs.
     
  15. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Firstly, I'm interested to know that round pin plugs/sockets, all the rage in the 70s/80s, are legal; can't understand why, though !!!!!:(

    Secondly, I also eschew ANY plugs and sockets; I hard-wire up to the IEC connection. I agree entirely about the bottleneck effect; it's quite logical really. However, I wouldn't evangelise on this point as it's each to his own and can be system/installation dependant.

    RE. RADIALS v RING

    A ring cannot give separation...in anything...to your kit. A radial circuit, conversely, can (and should) do precisely that, esp. if you have one circuit per piece of kit. Safer, too.
     
  16. stevec67

    stevec67 pfm Member

    Why would you remove 3 pin plugs and sockets and then leave an IEC in place? If there's a bottleneck the IEC is it, a look at the conductor surfacxe areas will tell you this. A better route if you find these things important is to dump IECs and fit cable glands with captive leads, then connect them to 3 pin mains plugs.
     
  17. Sovereign

    Sovereign pfm Member

    I agree with IEC's being shite, I have not carried out any testing here though. The problem I have with three pin conventional plugs is not the plug itself but merely the fuse inside
     
  18. Mike Reed

    Mike Reed pfm Member

    Yes, theoretically it's better to have hard-wired or captive (to the kit) leads, but most modern kit has an IEC socket. Who'd be adventurous enough to bugger about with this in a £3k amplifier or above, for example?

    There are IECs and IECs. Some are demonstrably better (and pricier) than others. To my mind, a 13 amp. fuse is more of a 'bottleneck' than a decent IEC plug. Then you have the case fuse, usually rated at between 1 and 5 amp's. Not a lot you can do there except uprate the fuse or remove it completely (by inserting a blank). Not recommended !:eek:

    Is one 'bottleneck' better than two...or three...or..?. Also it's not just about 'bottlenecks' and fuses. Each connection raises impedance to some degree, and this potentially affects dynamics, which, as we all know, is an integral part of s.q. subjectively.

    There's a lot one can do to improve sticking your expensive hifi system into switched sockets on a domestic ring. To what degree you improve this primary source of mains electricity is up to individual circumstances and ambition. Battery operated kit excluded .:)
     
  19. trancera

    trancera pfm Member

    While I realise round pins might meet regs, do most manufacturers not require a standard UK plug with fuse, or are they OK with the round pin plugs and their own internal fuses?
     
  20. Sovereign

    Sovereign pfm Member

    Are you meaning, for the manufacturers to continue to guarantee their product?
     

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