Sensor size and life.

[vuk]

for Mick, in all its glory

Picture. Doctor Harold Edgerton

IMHO and IMEO that is a seminal bit of kitsch. i wouldn't even want to take credit for the picture if it was worth $1M.

mick, i thank you, however, for bringing up this example, but are you able to elaborate in the manner that simon heys just did?


vuk.

 

[omers]

I think Mick belongs to the school of thought that says Art is Painting, Sculpture and Music and nothing else. Adopting this rule makes much easier to work out what is or isn't Art and also avoids any sort of complicated qualitative notions about what is good or bad art.

Add to that "and earlier than "modern"".

 

[Space is the Place]

Well?
Stuart Franklin, Magnum

 

[Space is the Place]

IMHO and IMEO that is a seminal bit of kitsch. i wouldn't even want to take credit for the picture if it was worth $1M.

Without this bit of Kitsch some of the greatest photos wouldn't exsist, like this one

W. Eugene Smith, Tomoko Uemura with her Mother in the bath

 

[Mick P]

Vuk

No I cannot elaborate in the way that Simon did and franlky i have no wish to.

You are falling for the old trap of he who considers himself artistic often looks down on those he considers philistines.

Regards

Mick.

 

[omers]

Photography has changed modern history, in a way painting never did

So did McDonald's.

 

[radiant_veteran]

Well?

Can you explain what your point is here? Are you referring to the point about people not seeing photography as 'art', or your equally valid point about photography capturing historical events?

 

[Space is the Place]

Do you still think Hockneys correct Simon? or have people that cared for others, and tried to change peoples lives for the better with their photography convinced you otherwise.

 

[vuk]

Without this bit of Kitsch some of the greatest photos wouldn't exsist, like this one
http://www.lyseo.edu.ouka.fi/kuvataide/albums/album02/smith.jpg
W. Eugene Smith, Tomoko Uemura with her Mother in the bath

i find that picture repulsive and voyeuristic in a very sick way. i also don't see what the milk drop kitsch has to do with it.

MICK:You are falling for the old trap of he who considers himself artistic often looks down on those he considers philistines.

i thought you had admiration for talented, confident people who looked down upon others--or is that only when it's because they have made a lot of money in conventional business?

as i keep repeating, i am genuinely interested in what people make of this stuff because it is rare to witness any kind of feedback or conversation about art among those outside the art world. to me, life without art (not necessarily making it, but have it to indulge in) is the only reason to live past that age when all a young man thinks about is sleeping with women. actually, it even helps keep one sane and properly satisfied during that early part.

vuk.

 

[vuk]

or have people that cared for others, and tried to change peoples lives for the better with their photography convinced you otherwise.

what is this, art-dealer propaganda? anyone explicitly trying to do with "art" what you are describing is a fool or a liar. art is a personal compulsion to create what one thinks is beautiful 9however the individual wishes to define that).


vuk.

 

[Mick P]

Vuk

I think you want to hear what you want to hear.

I still stand by my statement that most of what some people regard as art is nothing of the sort.

A walk around the Tate Modern illustrates this perfectly. Lots of posuers gawping at rubbish and passing it off as art.

Regards

Mick

 

[vuk]

I think Mick belongs to the school of thought that says Art is Painting, Sculpture and Music and nothing else. Adopting this rule makes much easier to work out what is or isn't Art and also avoids any sort of complicated qualitative notions about what is good or bad art.

matthew.

as many of us have observed over the years, mick has unfortunately fallen into the trap of playing a parody of his former great self for cheap forum laughs. i recall when he used to give lengthy, polite and well thought-out replies.

vuk.

 

[Mick P]

Vuk

If your argument resorts to cheap piss taking then I bid you goodnight.

Regards

Mick

 

[vuk]

I still stand by my statement that most of what some people regard as art is nothing of the sort.

A walk around the Tate Modern illustrates this perfectly. Lots of posuers gawping at rubbish and passing it off as art.

mick.

if the point of this thread was do establish a really blatant, easy-to-use litmus test to avoid something dangerous and undesirable, then this sort of reply would possibly make sense. instead, we are having a conversation about it, to which this sort of comment adds nothing.

how about if i try to elaborate and guess at what is behind these perceptions of yours? are you saying that art is necessarily something very complicated that can not even be properly judged by most people? are you suggesting that a lot of young/modern people incorrectly elevate things they like to the throne of art? you see what i'm after here? are able to explain yourself like that? if so, the next step in terms of basic logic would be to explain why complexity is a prerequisite, etc.

vuk.

 

[Space is the Place]

i find that picture repulsive and voyeuristic in a very sick way

In a sick way that the photography on publication, made the company Chisso, that had poisoned the people of Minamata realise they were not above the law, and made them pay compensation, to the family's involved.

Tomoko Uemura died in 1977 at the age of 21.

 

[radiant_veteran]

Do you still think Hockneys correct Simon? or have people that cared for others, and tried to change peoples lives for the better with their photography convinced you otherwise.

I was really only talking about the photography vs art thing. What I liked in Hockney is his simple assessment that photography doesn't capture the human experience of seeing the world. Personally I agree.

I think photography has indisputable strengths over painting in terms of being more appropriate for the documentary and factual. It's immediacy I think as you have demonstrated really well with the examples you posted.

However where you are seeking to create an image that captures or inspires a new way of seeing the world I think painting will win every time. Let me emphasise 'seeing' as a visual thing and nothing to do with subject matter. I mean the physical experience of experiencing the world, expressed in paint or sculpture or drawing or other kinds of performance.

You have posted some really beautiful and important photographs and I don't dispute the importance of photography at all.

I do not think Hockney's view is necessarily correct but I hope it's at least interesting to others because I found it personally quite inspiring and it resonated with some of my own issues with photography.

Apologies if I come over as trying to create an argument... (big friendly smile)

 

[vuk]

i find that picture repulsive and voyeuristic in a very sick way

In a sick way that the photography on publication, made the company Chisso, that had poisoned the people of Minamata realise they were not above the law, and made them pay compensation, to the family's involved.

that makes it an effective legal document placed into evidence, not an artistic photograph.

if are looking for these schizophrenic blends of concept, OJ's lawyer came closer to art with the verse: "if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit".

vuk.

 

[Space is the Place]

Its OK simon its Hockney that annoys me a little not you, i like his paintings and the man, i just thing he failed to understand that you can get the world into one photograph, he just couldn't do it that's all.

Im not really interested in"art" just people who are creative.
Hope this will make you smile Simon

Photo by Eugene Richards

 

[Space is the Place]

that makes it an effective legal document placed into evidence, not an artistic photograph

Your correct its not about art, its about life, and the things that matter.

 

[vuk]

http://pilsnerurquell-lucieawards.com/assets/downloads/Eugene Richards/15Richards.jpg
Photo by Eugene Richards

now that is both worthwhile and art. this is why...

pure formalism ;-)


vuk.