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SBT question

vince rocker

vince rocker

pfm Member
Hi

This may be a naive question, but here we go...
I run a Squeezebox Touch direct into a Naim 92 (with 90 / Flatcap) and it sounds OK but of course I'm looking for improvement. Files carefully ripped from CD to FLAC and played through SB server and SBT are passable but noticeably lacking compared to playing the original CD on my CD5i. I'll get an external DAC of some sort, for a start. I see it is also possible to get power supply upgrades for the SBT. If I'm using a DAC, is the SBT just a menuing system for the SB server? In which case, will an upgraded PSU make any difference?

Cheers
 
An external DAC makes an enormous difference to the SBT. I have not added a PSU to mine yet, but according to Bemused in the DIY room, his made a decent improvement even using an external DAC.
 
The consensus seems to be that upgrading the SBT power supply makes little difference, and certainly that's what I find with mine, although I'm not using an external DAC.
 
Although some people are happy with the DAC in the SBT, and it does represent amazing value for money, adding a good DAC will change the sound, hopefully for the better. The SBT power supply seems to be quite benign, and the SBT does seem to have quite a lot of filtering etc, between the PSU and the circuits, so changing the PSU may not make much difference. However when I had a Naim system it did seem to be quite fussy about what else was plugged in nearby, and I found laptop PSUs, the Linn Lingo mk1 and a few other bits of electrical stuff would affect the sound of the system. You can test this by listening to another source and connecting and disconnecting the SBT PSU and see if it changes anything. It doesn't make any difference in my current system. A PSU change will make no difference to the SBT as a sender of 1s and 0s as it is known to be bit perfect, but it may affect electrical noise, which may upset your DAC. Optical SPDIF should eliminate that possibility, or maybe better USB via an isolator.
 
SPDIF out to a good DAC made a world of difference to mine.

Use the Triode EDO 3rd party app on the SBT for a further improvement. Turns off the SBT DAC though so don't do it if you want to use the analogue output.
 
I use FLAC rips and Spotify Premium streamed via SBT with optical out into Benchmark DAC1 HDR. No problems to speak of. The SBT does its job as a digital transport without any fuss!

It is true it helps if you're computer savvy or know someone who is. Once the system is set up and you learn how to rip and tag, adding new music becomes straightforward.

Logitech provide a free app for smart phones and tablets for controlling the SBT, browsing music, Spotify etc. Also, there is a paid for app called Squeeze Commander I can recommend if the Logitech app has issues on your Android device, like it does on mine.

I am skeptical about tweaks or power supplies changing the sound of the SBT especially when used as just a digital transport.
Darren
 
There are several controller apps you can pay for. I use squeezepad on the iPad and iPeng on the phone - both are better than the Logitech app, which always confused the album art.
Squeezepad support in particular was excellent when I needed them. Prompt, personal and very helpful indeed.
 
Hi guys, I am not a poster here but saw a reference to some work I did in the diy room.

SBT just a menuing system for the SB server?
Click to expand...

No it is very much removed from that and is an intrinsic part of your replay system, even if using digital outputs.

The SPT has internal regulators and theory suggests that any PSRR gained over the wall wart SMPS will stack up with the internal regulators to one glorious total, in practice it is not so easy but with care can tend to that direction.

I approached my supply upgrade in an attempt to remove some very high frequency noise (up in the MHz) that was on the spdif carrier.
Like all emc once out of the bag it gets every were and is difficult to put a lid on it. I was suspicious the noise was the wall wart switching noise and decided to eradicate it at source by substituting a linear supply.

My measurements showed that the SBT has a curious current pulse that it rhythmically takes from its supply, too fast for a multimeter but easy see see on a scope, this implied to me that a rather dynamic regulator is required.

007-7.jpg





Yes SBT power supply upgrade made a very noticeable improvement to my system, but mine is hardly a commercial system.

The supply was carefully designed to the SBT parameters and is perhaps nothing like the commercially available supplies.

I never used the SBT analog out for long which I found very poor compared to the converters we play with in the DIY room opting for optical in the early days, which moved to wired spdif and a brief experimentation with i2s, the i2s is superior of course but a total pita with the SBT.

The next imminent move is to asynchronous USB from the SBT with an XMOS based i2s interface to the DAC and EDO running in the SBT, reports among the diy bodgers are that this is a significant upgrade and is certainly an improvement on the vaguenesses that the spdif interface has, and I will be pleased to be rid of it. But again probably not applicable to commercial systems.

Do not make the mistakes of confusing spdif with tcp/ip protocols and the like with error detection / correction, spdif is like chucking data up a blind alley whilst under the influence of more than a few beers.

My humble opinion is supply upgrade success depends on both quality and suitability of the regulators used and the resolution of the remainder of the system for my system it was a winner, if I plug the SBT analog into a budget 5 series second system the power supply has little if any effect, certainly more gain to be had by rolling a few penny capacitors in the Naim gear.

Off to get my coat
Tony
 
Ive got a teddy PSU ... makes a big difference on the digital and analogues out, except the USB .... didn't 'hear' any differences on the USB output, and asynch USB should give you the best sound also ...
 
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. Think I'll follow the DAC route first and maybe do something about the PSU when funds allow.

As a poster raised it above, I run Squeeze Commander on my Droid phone and it works well on those irritating occasions when I have left the SBT remote on the other side of the room. Haven't tried the Logitech app on Droid but Mrs Rocker has it on her iPad, where it works OK.
 
vince rocker said:
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. Think I'll follow the DAC route first and maybe do something about the PSU when funds allow.

As a poster raised it above, I run Squeeze Commander on my Droid phone and it works well on those irritating occasions when I have left the SBT remote on the other side of the room. Haven't tried the Logitech app on Droid but Mrs Rocker has it on her iPad, where it works OK.
Click to expand...

Don't expect massive "night & day" improvements. The reality is that in a blind test you would be extremely unusual if you could discern the difference between a stock SBT and a SBT + external DAC.

By all means have a go, but the differences attributed are mostly imaginary if the truth were known. I would suggest a home trial before wasting any serious cash.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Don't expect massive "night & day" improvements. The reality is that in a blind test you would be extremely unusual if you could discern the difference between a stock SBT and a SBT + external DAC.

By all means have a go, but the differences attributed are mostly imaginary if the truth were known. I would suggest a home trial before wasting any serious cash.

Chris
Click to expand...

Home trials always a good idea of course.

I found a night and day difference Chris. Obviously this depends a lot on personal preferences and DAC quality, but it really was an eye opener here.

It might all be in my head! But I'm still very happy with the overall system. Will have to try some 24 bit native files now rather than rely on upsampling.
 
Mescalito said:
Don't expect massive "night & day" improvements. The reality is that in a blind test you would be extremely unusual if you could discern the difference between a stock SBT and a SBT + external DAC.

By all means have a go, but the differences attributed are mostly imaginary if the truth were known. I would suggest a home trial before wasting any serious cash.

Chris
Click to expand...

SBT to SBT plus external DAC eg. MDAC is a big upgrade, well worth it.
 
My opinion is that good enough isn't enough. Otherwise why are we here, on this forum? LOL.

However, I've come to believe it's important to be rational when considering audio purchases. When it comes to LINE LEVEL equipment in particular, I think if it measures well then it is good, full stop. This is how Weiss design their equipment, to measure spectacularly.

A Benchmark or Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus measures better than the SBT analogue outs. This is a fact. Now, I agree the statement "it sounds better" isn't a fact but a subjective opinion. (FWIW my subjective impression is that the Benchmark does sound better but I would in no way describe it night and day...it's rather subtle! This is simply because despite what I said, the SBT measures very decently! My compliments to Logitech.)

I have seen no evidence that improved power supplies or software tweaks improve the measured performance of the SBT. I am skeptical. I am even more skeptical about the same claims for SBT as transport. I am yet more skeptical about the same claims for SBT as transport over optical link.

If someone can show me measurements, I will take some notice. I am too busy to try every tweak discussed on the interweb based on subjective reports when I have plenty of hard data elsewhere to guide me.

Now that's me. Some people love to tweak and if that's your thing then I say enjoy! Live and let live. And it's a fascinating source of debate which clearly everyone here likes.
Darren
 
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