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Sand or sawdust?

R

rog

pfm Member
I read somewhere that loading speaker stands with sawdust could have better results than with sand. The reason given for this seemed to be that a material like sawdust had a dampening effect unlike sand which could add harshness.

So builders yard for sand or pet shop for sawdust, what do you think?
 
Sawdust will have very little effect of any kind - unless there's a heck of a lot of it. In the case of most speaker stands it would be similar to filling them with nothing.
 
I believe the idea is to add mass/weight to stands by adding lead shot (expensive but effective) or sand; messy but cheaper.

I once filled my ProAc Response 3.5s with silver sand, and it made quite a difference in solidity, and, ergo, the sound quality.

My 50 cms tall Target speaker stands were/are filled with lead shot, which enhanced the performance of various small speakers I used them with. They've now been adapted to support my valved monoblocs, but I've no idea if the filling is beneficial in this case; difficult to tell, really.
 
Afranta said:
The recommendation was long grain. :D
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That'd be basamati then ;)
dave said:
I'm pretty sure sand can't ring - it can only go shhhhh.
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I thought that was shells ... now there's a thought! ;)
Mike Reed said:
I believe the idea is to add mass/weight to stands by adding lead shot (expensive but effective) or sand; messy but cheaper.

I once filled my ProAc Response 3.5s with silver sand, and it made quite a difference in solidity, and, ergo, the sound quality.

My 50 cms tall Target speaker stands were/are filled with lead shot, which enhanced the performance of various small speakers I used them with. They've now been adapted to support my valved monoblocs, but I've no idea if the filling is beneficial in this case; difficult to tell, really.
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I guess ultimately it depends on your setup and experimenting with different fillings would be a good thing to do but a total hassle with things like sand which as you say can be messy.

Presumably if you find the sound overly harsh/bright then dampening might be the way to go, if not then something like lead or sand I guess.

Is there any consensus over whether lead or sand is best?
 
It'll depend on your floor more than anything else. If you are getting resonance in your stands that you can hear, they aren't well made. If you have a springy floor that your speaker/stands are on, and want to damp it, then adding as much mass as possible may help, so go either sand or lead depending on budget and required weight given the volume you can fill.

Sawdust sounds like a duff idea to fill inadequate stands to solve stand design problems.
 
I've put some hollow fibre pillow stuffing inside a pair of stands to good effect. It damped the metal ringing immensely and added far less weight to the stand than sand which was nice for taking to trade shows.
 
If you have ringing stands then filling them with sawdust and compressing it might well help. It'll do bugger all to the sound of the speakers though.
 
I have never been able to source lead shot.

The only time I had stands for speakers was the dedicated ones for a pair of Tannoy 603's. The stands had a kind of trapezoid profile column, easily accessed by removing the top plate.

Because I couldn't get lead shot, I used little lead 'buttons'. I made these by melting scrap lead and moulding it in the little chrome plated hub caps from a child's toy pram. The things I do for hi-fi!

Just in case anybody is looney enough to follow my example, I should point out that I worked in the Lead refining industry for years and am familiar with working with the stuff. If you absolutely must work with molten lead, make sure that all moulds and any tools are pre-warmed to drive off any moisture. (It WILL be there!) If you don't. you risk Lead spattering all over the place as the invisible moisture is instantly turned to stem by the molten Lead.

Anyway. I put an equal mass of little lead buttons into each stand and it greatly increased the stability of the speaker, with audible and positive effects. I think there may be some anti-resonance effect, but mostly I believe it is just about preventing the speaker from rocking back as the mid/bass cone moves forward, etc. This has two effects. Firstly, it minimises 'lost motion' in bass drivers, giving a tighter, faster and cleaner bass. Second, it stops the tweeter from moving with the box, which in turn minimises the damage to phase response and imaging.

I found in practice that some of the lead buttons would decide to resonate at certain frequencies. To solve this, I used kiln dried sand to fill the gaps between them. And to prevent the very fine sand from leaking anywhere, I put the buttons in a plastic bag, put the bag in the stand and topped up with sand.

Simple!
 
Mullardman said:
I have never been able to source lead shot.

Simple!
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I got large bags of shot from the local gun club. It was 1980 something. Can't use lead now. But probably still worth a try with what is currently used.
I filled SARA stands with shot. Unable to remember with/without status.(age related memory loss) A friend who also had SARA's said that the inclusion of shot in the stands improved the presentation.
 
I was told by a dealer that I should use their special sand for some speaker stands I didn`t in the end buy, as ordinary sand was no good... In fairness you would need to use perfectly dry sand or it will cake into lumps which is not what you want.
Why not make your own lead shot, all you need is to pour molten lead through a perforated sheet and let it fall 100 feet or so into water where you collect it.
 
Sand and shot are both good - it's all about weight. Shot are denser but sand packs together more closely.
 
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