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Rogers 5/9 vs Harbeth M30 ?

A

Alastair MM

Member
Does anyone have experience of both of these speakers ?
If Rogers hadn't shut up shop I would probably have a pair of 5/9s by now as they were a speaker that had the right balance of attributes for my ears when I heard them back in the days...
As the Monitor 30 is designed as a replacement for the 5/9 I expect their performance to be similar , but I am concerned that they might not "rock" .
I have had a pair of Compact 7s in my flat for several months but their rolled off bass and treble ( regardless of their stunningly detailed and tonally accurate midrange ) leaves most beat driven music sounding dead . I have read that the M30 is a livelier unit but I would appreciate any opinions from someone who has heard them both .
 
I have had a pair of Compact 7s in my flat for several months but their rolled off bass and treble ( regardless of their stunningly detailed and tonally accurate midrange ) leaves most beat driven music sounding dead . I have read that the M30 is a livelier unit but I would appreciate any opinions from someone who has heard them both .
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Can I ask what the rest of the system is and the kind / size of room you have them in? I’m curious as I also use C7s and find them anything but rolled off at the top, if anything I’d describe them as a little bright, a point which is also born out by their response plot (they are slightly ‘up’ around 12-15Khz). The bass in my room is very good indeed – no booms or nasties, nicely agile and more than acceptably extended for the cabinet size – they do a bottom E ok but will never shake the room the way a large box with big drivers can, but that goes for any mid sized box with a 8” bass unit.

I really like ‘em.

Tony.
 
Alastair MM said:
I have had a pair of Compact 7s in my flat for several months but their rolled off bass and treble ( regardless of their stunningly detailed and tonally accurate midrange ) leaves most beat driven music sounding dead .
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Ditto Tony's question. Need details of room system and - especially - setup.
 
Tony ,
thanks for your response . My system comprises an old Rock TT a Sugden CD21 and Sugden A21a with Townshend DCT speaker cable . The room the system is in at the moment is ( from memory ) 5.5m X 3.8m with 3m ceiling height . I have spent much time moving them to get them to suit my taste in the room but was never fully satisfied . I know that if I used a more powerful amp they would open out more but I still feel they are not for me ( I have tried them out with some Naim kit also ). I must add that they are exceptional speakers , just not quite to my taste . My use of the word " dead " was over the top , I was exagerating to make my point . Maybe I should have listened to the people who say " not for pop/electronic " , but I always feel a speaker should be capable of reproducing most music . Have you tried the M30 or ls5/9?

Maybe I am looking for a slight artificial punch at the bottom end , rather than attempting to keep it very clean and controlled . The sound of the C7 is a bit too controlled for me , I would prefer some excitememt ( lies ! ) .
 
Maybe I should have listened to the people who say " not for pop/electronic " , but I always feel a speaker should be capable of reproducing most music . Have you tried the M30 or ls5/9?
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The thing I like about the C7s is their even handedness – I have a music collection that goes from baroque through some pretty wild and intense rock and jazz to banging techno and dub reggae etc, the Harbeths cope will all equally well. How loud do you listen – their one ‘weakness’ is that they do not go very loud. This doesn’t effect me as I don’t either.

The Sugden is a lovely amp, I really like it, though it’s 25 watts may not be quite enough to grip the Harbeths. I certainly felt a 20 watt Nait 2 struggled at anything much above background levels. I’ve since tried them with a Densen Beat 100 (60wpc) and my current Prima Luna valve amp (40wpc). Both are fine.

I’ve not had proper home exposure to either the LS5/9 or M30, though would caution you that from what I’ve read the M30 has a smoother less exaggerated top compared to the C7 so it may sound more rolled off to you. It is also a slightly smaller box so may well have slightly less bass. It does however have a much better tweeter so will be ‘better’, but possibly not what you want. With the Sugden I’d try a high efficiency speaker like a Living Voice or big vintage Tannoy etc. Conversely try a more powerful up-beat amp with the C7.

What stands have you got? My C7s livened up dramatically once I bought a pair of Something Solid XF open frame stands. The previous heavyweight Targets sounded leaden and shut in by comparison.

Tony.
 
I have to agree with you about stands . The Something solid XFs clean the sound up no end . I had them on an old pair of Rogers Stands and they had a hard sound , even slightly aggressive , with the XF they sounded much more natural and balanced , even -handed as you say .

I had read that the M30s were more forward than the C7 ( front row as opposed to mid-hall perspective ? ) and maybe this is the trait I am looking for . But there are many opinions ...............

My local dealer ( in Edinburgh ) doesn't hold any Harbeth stock and I don't feel too good about getting a pair sent up for me to demo unless I am fairly confident they are the ones for me .

I don't listen at high levels so efficiency is not critical , as long as the Sugden drives them adequately . I know that a high efficiency design makes sense but getting something to work that maybe shouldn't always holds interest to me !

Thanks for your suggestions .
 
Tony

I dug out an old quantum pre/power (85wpc) I'd forgotten was in a cupboard , doh ! It's definitely not a Sugden but it sees to drive the speakers with much more grip . Bass is tighter and keeps it together much lower down , dynamics seem more realistic , more air and energy . The pre/power is a bit crude compared to the sugden but I can see so much more about what these speakers are about . More decisions to make ............. Thanks again
 
Alastair MM said:
Does anyone have experience of both of these speakers ?
If Rogers hadn't shut up shop I would probably have a pair of 5/9s by now as they were a speaker that had the right balance of attributes for my ears when I heard them back in the days...
As the Monitor 30 is designed as a replacement for the 5/9 I expect their performance to be similar , but I am concerned that they might not "rock" .
I have had a pair of Compact 7s in my flat for several months but their rolled off bass and treble ( regardless of their stunningly detailed and tonally accurate midrange ) leaves most beat driven music sounding dead . I have read that the M30 is a livelier unit but I would appreciate any opinions from someone who has heard them both .
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Alastair, I've been using 5/9s (Rogers) for 10 years now, recently had them rewired with VDH cable, they are still the best standmounter I've ever heard, makes B&W 805s sound very dull indeed. I've also compared them with Spendor, Shahinian and other B&Ws'- I had money burning in my pocket, could get all of them at trade price but kept the 5/9s - that's how good they are.

There is a Harbeth forum where I've started a thread about this very subject, of course Alan Shaw prefers his own model.

5/9s often appear on ebay - the fools!
 
Alastair MM said:
I had read that the M30s were more forward than the C7 ( front row as opposed to mid-hall perspective ? ) and maybe this is the trait I am looking for . But there are many opinions
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THe M30s are flat, or as flat as AS can make them and come with a really high quality tweeter. They have never sounded forward to me, especially compared with C7s, which are flattish, but have a slightly rock n roll take on things (a low volume rock n roll take, naturally).
So M30s are not forward, but will do a better job of telling you whats in the recording, Now that's not always something we want to hear...
 
does anyone know an efficiency figure for M30, or even better, how they cope with relatively low power but super high quality feed (say 10-ish W).... also what's their impedance plot?
 
I think they are around the same as the C7s, i.e. not too efficient at about 87db but all Harbeths have pretty easy loading. My personal experience has been that a Nait 2 (about 18 wpc) was not enough to really control the C7s though a good 30 wpc is ok - my Prologue 2 stuffed with EL34s does a nice job.

Tony.
 
I ran a pair of C7s for three years and enjoyed them very much. A very well balanced product.

I have had LS4a2, LS7t and LS5/8 so I'm a fan but sad to say but I wouldn't choose to spend real money on a Rogers speaker nowadays, the spares just aren't there if a driver goes belly up. The Audax tweeter in the LS5/9 is easily bettered these days too.

My understanding was that the C7 had a more extended bass and lesser tweeter compared to the M30 which has been voiced flatter, as befits its "Monitor" status.

I changed from my Harbeths to a pair of Yamahas which surprised me by how much they moved the performance boundary beyond the C7. More of everything that the Harbeths already do so well and real in-room presence, they turn every disc into a performance.
 
Good Lord, I'd hardly mention the C7 or NS1000M in the same breath!

The C7 has a wonderful mid band, but the tubby, one note bass (even on the awsome SS stands) didn't suit my music tastes, which include lots of rock and "synth based" music of various types. The NS1000's, which I owned for a year or so, had a much better bass end but sounded rather "synthetic" on acoustic instruments.

Memory clouds things though.....
 
DSJR said:
Good Lord, I'd hardly mention the C7 or NS1000M in the same breath!

The C7 has a wonderful mid band, but the tubby, one note bass (even on the awsome SS stands) didn't suit my music tastes, which include lots of rock and "synth based" music of various types. The NS1000's, which I owned for a year or so, had a much better bass end but sounded rather "synthetic" on acoustic instruments.

Memory clouds things though.....
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I can see why you say that, they are very different. To me, the link between them is that they both attempt to make electrical signal into musical truth. The differing results reflect the technologies used and the designers' skills and priorities, both are excellent in their own way. Most speakers designs out there don't get anywhere what these two can do.

I would say that the Harbeth is the better all-rounder and will work well with all sorts of kit and music. The Yamaha, however, aims higher and is less balanced as a result but it is one of very few speakers that can make the Harbeths seem veiled and lacking in transparency/resolution.

BUT, they need to be used with the right amps or they will sound shit. In other words when things are right for them, they are (to my ears) clearly better than the Harbeths, with much more presence and life to the sound. Better bass, more resolution in the midband & treble and better imaging too. Not bad for '70s japcrap.

It strikes me that the OP could do worse than try a pair of Yamahas, if he's after a "Harbeth with more balls" type of sound. I know this is a very rough approximation but it worked for me.
 
The C7 has a wonderful mid band, but the tubby, one note bass (even on the awsome SS stands) didn't suit my music tastes, which include lots of rock and "synth based" music of various types. The NS1000's, which I owned for a year or so, had a much better bass end but sounded rather "synthetic" on acoustic instruments.
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You must have had really bad luck with room or setup, my experience with the C7 (also on SS XF stands) has been that their bass is remarkably free of such colouration and anything but one note. Mine are nice and agile and remarkably even with no booms or honks, just a pretty sudden roll off below about 40Hz. I like a lot of electronica / techno etc too. I do have a excellent sounding room though and have positioned the C7s using a spreadsheet (Alison effect)! I can certainly understand people not liking Harbeths, but those people will usually be ones who like listening loud, something the Harbs are simply not designed to do.

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
You must have had really bad luck with room or setup, my experience with the C7 (also on SS XF stands) has been that their bass is remarkably free of such colouration and anything but one note. Mine are nice and agile and remarkably even with no booms or honks, just a pretty sudden roll off below about 40Hz. I like a lot of electronica / techno etc too. I do have a excellent sounding room though and have positioned the C7s using a spreadsheet (Alison effect)!

Tony.
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I meant to comment on that too. My C7s on SS XF stands had very tidy bass. Not the lowest in the world but what was there was very well behaved.
 
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