Rock and Metal Listening Fatigue

[Dave Cattlin]

having a rock night down the hill

Marillion Clutching at Straws
Led Zeppelin IV
and now Hemispheres

all sounding terrific

as did And Justice For All last night

 

[gordon]

Jay's videos give me listening fatigue.

 

[Tim Jones]

If there's one musical genre that I almost actively dislike, it's metal; replete with cliches and half-remembered nostalgia. The villains of this piece to my ears have always been Metallica - an outfit that came close to reinventing the genre in the early eighties, only to blow it by disappearing up themselves.

But, without wanting to start a row around tastes, isn't part of the point that it's fatiguing?

 

[Marchbanks]

…isn't part of the point that it's fatiguing?

Aha - you mean that’s why it’s called ‘metal’?

 

[cubastreet]

1. Shouldn't all speakers which cost an arm and leg (and kidney in Jay's case) be capable of playing all styles of music at least reasonably well?

Yes

2. If it's horses for courses, what qualities make for a good rock and metal speaker?

I like efficient speakers for rock & metal. I also like big drivers, the bass guitar and drums sound better to my ears.

A lot of people seem to think you don't need a good system for rock music because it's all noise and distortion anyway. I find the opposite is true. It's quite difficult to make it sound good at high volume compared to most genres.

 

[Mr Pig]

A lot of people seem to think you don't need a good system for rock music because it's all noise and distortion anyway. I find the opposite is true. It's quite difficult to make it sound good at high volume compared to most genres.

'Good for classical' usually means that's all it can do.

 

[marshanp]

Yes

I like efficient speakers for rock & metal. I also like big drivers, the bass guitar and drums sound better to my ears.

A lot of people seem to think you don't need a good system for rock music because it's all noise and distortion anyway. I find the opposite is true. It's quite difficult to make it sound good at high volume compared to most genres.

I reckon this is all true. And I never listen to heavy rock... but I do listen to heavy classical. It's all about *headroom*, innit?

 

[paulfromcamden]

If there's one musical genre that I almost actively dislike, it's metal; replete with cliches and half-remembered nostalgia.

I think you could make that argument against rather a lot of genres. Punk, prog, northern soul, happy hardcore, the latest Noel Gallagher project, etc etc

Obviously as a jazz fan I'm above all that.

*adjusts beret and lights a Gitanes*

 

[camverton]

'Good for classical' usually means that's all it can do.

Depends what you think of as classical. By and large, I’ve found that any system that can make a decent fist of Verdi’s Requiem or one of Mahlers‘s more extravagant symphonies with number of performers in the hundreds, huge dynamic range and frequency range from bass drum to piccolo, will find rock a piece of piss. The problem is finding a room to “contain” it.

 

[Tony L]

I really don’t see the point of setting a system up to sound acceptable on badly recorded and badly mastered and compressed rock music. You just end up with a coloured and undynamic system, or worse something that sounds like a pub PA. I want the full dynamics and life of a good recording. If it makes brickwalled crap like Oasis or whatever sound undynamic and flat it is because it is. A quick look at the .wav file shows exactly the mastering decisions taken. I’m no Oasis fan, but similarly mastered stuff sounds acceptable here, I can listen to it and enjoy it, but the compression and mastering decisions are blindingly obvious as it is a monitor-grade system. It just shows it as what it is. That’s what I want.

 

[Columbo]

If there's one musical genre that I almost actively dislike, it's metal; replete with cliches and half-remembered nostalgia. The villains of this piece to my ears have always been Metallica - an outfit that came close to reinventing the genre in the early eighties, only to blow it by disappearing up themselves.

But, without wanting to start a row around tastes, isn't part of the point that it's fatiguing?

I get your point, expecting soothing zen panpipe like tones with metal is obviously silly. But can't say I listen to metal with the goal of feeling fatigued.

I want an adrenaline pump. But I don't want be half-wincing and turning the music down or off after a couple of songs which has been my experience the whole of last year with my previous set-up. I ended up selling the £5.5k fancy pants speakers and plopped my £2k speakers back in so my ear drums weren't getting sonically lacerated, or at least lacerated in a good way.

 

[Columbo]

Yes

I like efficient speakers for rock & metal. I also like big drivers, the bass guitar and drums sound better to my ears.

A lot of people seem to think you don't need a good system for rock music because it's all noise and distortion anyway. I find the opposite is true. It's quite difficult to make it sound good at high volume compared to most genres.

That's what I've found too, one of the trickier genres to reproduce in a satisfying way.

I can imagine bigger drivers helping a ton. Sadly not on the cards until I can move house in a year or two.

 

[camverton]

I get your point, expecting soothing zen panpipe like tones with metal is obviously silly. But can't say I listen to metal with the goal of feeling fatigued.

I want an adrenaline pump. But I don't want be half-wincing and turning the music down or off after a couple of songs which has been my experience the whole of last year with my previous set-up. I ended up selling the £5.5k fancy pants speakers and plopped my £2k speakers back in so my ear drums weren't getting sonically lacerated, or at least lacerated in a good way.

Sums it up nicely. A good aim is to get the visceral thrill of music without the fatigue. It sometimes seems that as one goes up the hifi ladder the visceral impact gets better but with it comes fatigue until one climbs high enough up the ladder to get the thrill without the fatigue. Having done that one needs a suitable room, not to mention lack of neighbours, to enjoy it.

 

[Columbo]

I really don’t see the point of setting a system up to sound acceptable on badly recorded and badly mastered and compressed rock music. You just end up with a coloured and undynamic system, or worse something that sounds like a pub PA. I want the full dynamics and life of a good recording. If it makes brickwalled crap like Oasis or whatever sound undynamic and flat it is because it is. A quick look at the .wav file shows exactly the mastering decisions taken. I’m no Oasis fan, but similarly mastered stuff sounds acceptable here, I can listen to it and enjoy it, but the compression and mastering decisions are blindingly obvious as it is a monitor-grade system. It just shows it as what it is. That’s what I want.

Still trying to muddle my way forward in this hobby but I think this is more or less where I'm at, sort of.

My current speakers measure flat but they seem to add a touch of smoothness, body and richness in that neutrality without sacrificing any detail. Thinking about it, my DAC and integrated have the same qualities. This is working well for crappy recordings ... they don't editorialise the sound, I can still hear they're crappy recordings, but they make them listenable. I'm listening to rock/metal again.

Guess it's all about choosing your trade-offs.

 

[Tony L]

I can imagine bigger drivers helping a ton. Sadly not on the cards until I can move house in a year or two.

I’ve certainly found that since owning big Tannoys. I find it far easier to listen to extreme music of all kinds now. I’m not a metal fan, but I do like stuff like Sonic Youth, Hüsker Dü, Minutemen etc along with a shed-load of Krautrock, punk and new-wave stuff (which actually tends to be very well recorded). Distorted guitar now sounds much more like a guitar amp situated behind my speakers than a hi-fi system that is struggling on the verge of harshness. I’m sure it is just having vastly more headroom than I’ll ever use along with a natural non-hyped tonal balance.

That said a lot of digital mastering of old titles is still shockingly bad. Don’t try to fix stuff that is genuinely crap, especially if you’ve just found an album you remember liking on vinyl decades ago on a streaming service. Chances are the remastering is just bad.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

[For those of us who spin vinyl - and use MC carts...]

Here's a little trick you might like to try.

If you find your wild and raucous HARD ROCK / METAL / WHATEVER albums a bit distorted and unlistenable, try adding a bit more Impedance Load to the cartridge!

For beginners, that means a lower Ohm number than your current phono stage setting.

EXAMPLE: Currently running 1K Load? Try 100R instead!
(Or whatever your phono stage can offer!)

You will be amazed how it helps with surface noise and the various tracking distortions exaggerated by many less well-recorded albums.

Works for bombastic CLASSICAL pieces too...

[Before you stone me for insurrection, TRY IT! ]

Post Script Edit: If initially, the heavier impedance load sounds a bit restrained, try a lighter VTF as well. This works with some carts too, as the stylus tends to behave differently under increased load...

 

[jobseeker]

I always thought Tool albums were well recorded. Might have to refresh my memory, as I’ve just done a speaker swap-out.

 

[Marchbanks]

Obviously as a jazz fan I'm above all that.

*adjusts beret and lights a Gitanes*

@Tim Jones has to be a jazz fan too, surely? Don’t forget he let it slip that he’s only one degree of separation away from smoking something stronger than a Gitanes with Charles Mingus.

(Although between you and me, I’ve been studying his photo closely and wouldn’t be at all surprised to find he’s only one degree of separation away from Peter Sellers too…)

 

[Mike Reed]

try adding a bit more Impedance Load to the cartridge!

For M/coils? Shirley not, and 100R is the default impedance for most upmarket ones. Thought it was capacitance which had effect on MMs, but I don't have experience there.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

For M/coils? Shirley not, and 100R is the default impedance for most upmarket ones. Thought it was capacitance which had effect on MMs, but I don't have experience there.

Mike, there is no "default load" for MC carts as they all have different internal impedance values.

General "Rule of thumb" is to load the cart 10-times the internal impedance of the cart, so that can land you anywhere - depending upon the internal impedance of the cart.

EXAMPLE: DENON DL-103R
Internal Impedance: 14R
Therefore Recommended Load: 140R (or thereabouts...) 100R actually works plenty good!

What I am saying is - whatever loading usually works well for well-recorded albums - for problem albums, try a lower impedance value - which equates to a higher impedance load.

EXAMPLE: Currently running 1K Load? Try 100R instead!
(Or whatever your phono stage can offer!)

Don't take my word for it. Just try it. It might work for you.