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Rock and Metal Listening Fatigue

Columbo

Columbo

pfm Member
Been following a chap on YouTube called Jay, he's a dealer for speakers that only oil barons could afford, watching out of idle curiosity.

On one of his live streams someone asks... "Do you listen to any hard rock or heavy metal? What speakers have you owned that sounded good with this genre of music?"

His answer: "I don't really like listening to the hard stuff because of the fatigue"

Given some of his set-ups cost 3-4x the price of a nice house that seems kind of mental. All that dough and can't stick some Led Zep on? WTF. (He has been using mainly Wilsons, Magico and Focals of recent, all ruthlessly revealing; wonder how rock/metal sounds through those SF beasts behind him?)

Anyway, I had a pair of more "audiophile" speakers and I realised I'd stopped listening to a lot of rock/metal (RATM, Alice in Chains, Drowning Pool and such) for nearly a year. It turns out they were 4-5dB tipped up in the presence region, great for some stuff, unpleasant and tiring for wall of sound distorted guitars.

It's got me wondering:

1. Shouldn't all speakers which cost an arm and leg (and kidney in Jay's case) be capable of playing all styles of music at least reasonably well?

2. If it's horses for courses, what qualities make for a good rock and metal speaker?
 
All speakers (regardless of price) should work with all music, if a speaker can only reproduce a certain type of music they're seriously flawed.

I don't listen to alot of heavy rock or heavy metal (if any) , though I do listen to quite a bit of faster paced heavier guitar bands, Pixies, Pumpkins, Placebo, Alice in chains, PJ etc.
I've generally found if a system or speakers can reproduce one of the better and denser recordings from the artists that produce more complex music then they tend to excell at the simpler most acoustic based material.

A big problem with alot of rock music in general is the recording studio, too much compression, not enough compression, make it louder, etc
 
Never really considered the compression thing but thinking about it, yeah, kind of obvious.

So I guess the next question: what things in an audio system / speakers exacerbate or help deal with compression issues?
 
Compression in the studio is not just restricted to ROCK and METAL.

Plenty of CLASSICAL crescendos get completely squashed, in order to meet record company sonic directives.

It’s so deflating when you are listening to the build-up of forces, only to be let down at the crucial moment.

Yes, good loudspeakers should work on all genres of music with the possible exception of the lowest notes of the pipe organ - or some ELECTRONICA tones - usually too deep for most transducers.
 
Yes I had to raise the Xover on my Ns1000xW when I bought a Lyngdorf Amp - it was bottoming out the bass drivers on Electronica. #pleasedontblow
 
Columbo said:
So I guess the next question: what things in an audio system / speakers exacerbate or help deal with compression issues?
Click to expand...
EQ? Tone controls? Loudness button?
These may work a little though I'm not sure.
Unfortunately when we buy a recording whether on vinyl, CD, Tape or streamed we don't have any say in the recording, sometimes their may be a different vesion with different mastering available.
I think if the system is choosing your music then it's the wrong system for you.
 
Many DACs and CD players don't handle inter-sample overs properly, unless you use some digital attenuation. This will be relevant for many rock and metal recordings.

Apart from that technical point, it will be the usual suspects - listener and speaker positioning, room acoustics, speakers ... and when all is optimised, the quality of the front end.
 
darrenyeats said:
Many DACs and CD players don't handle inter-sample overs properly, unless you use some digital attenuation. This will be relevant for many rock and metal recordings.

Apart from that technical point, it will be the usual suspects - listener and speaker positioning, room acoustics, speakers ... and when all is optimised, the quality of the front end.
Click to expand...

Does that relate to the idea of adding 3dB headroom?

 
Yes that's it, though 6dB is what I recommend. I use a 1 bit shift which is just over 6dB. Someone found a recording with 5.8dB of clipping but that's very extreme and to my knowledge unique! Good video BTW.

If the digital recording has inter-sample overs like this, it could still have other distortion remaining even after reducing digital volume. Still, reducing digital volume will remove a layer of needless distortion.
 
I’m far from being a heavy metal fan, but like any other gene there are really great and really awful recordings. Stuff that has been brickwalled in mastering is going to sound like crap regardless.

FWIW when confronted with those ‘can you accurately spot lossless from an MP3’ AB blind tests that were all the rage about a decade ago I always found distorted guitar amongst the easiest to identify. Most lossy compression just can’t cope with complex waveforms and the tell was always a lack of reverb tails or room cues from the guitar amp mics. Bad mastering has a very similar and even more destructive effect. That said a lot of heavy metal recordings are genuinely awful.

PS Some can be great though; I acquired a nice early (Vertigo ‘swirl’) pressing of the first Black Sabbath album and it is a really dynamic and alive thing. Great drumming, almost jazz in the way its recorded. A lot of ‘heavy’ new-wave/indie stuff can sound amazing too, e.g. original Wire, Gang Of Four, Minutemen, Firehose etc all sounds incredible, though is mostly vastly diminished in digital reissues.
 
Tony L said:
Stuff that has been brickwalled in mastering is going to sound like crap regardless.
Click to expand...
Vinyl can sound a lot better sometimes for these. Various reasons there ... but avoiding the digital clipping can be one of them (if you don't have access to digital VC!)
 
Telling people who don't have digital VC they need it never goes down well. In my defense this is a rock and metal SQ thread, it's very on topic. I'm also as a non-vinyl deck owner not happy to consider some recordings sound better on vinyl!
 
I used to love rock, paining through art college to Led Zep 2, Cream, Family, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple and the like. Nowadays, and with much better hifi, I only listen to it occasionally and when I do in short bursts simply because I find it a bit fatiguing, even though I still enjoy it. Nothing to do with the reproduction, which is must less fatiguing from a sound perspective, so much as I find the onslaught of sound fatiguing and the music visceral but not complex enough for my current taste. Over 50 years My favourite genre has gone from rock to big orchestral classical and now to classical chamber and instrumental music with a side serving of Jazz.
 
If anyone is interested in the technology and recording process involved in modern metal Rabea Massaad’s YouTube channel is a good watch. The care and attention to detail in modern forms is astonishing in many respects.

www.youtube.com

Rabea Massaad

Hi my name is Rabea, but everyone calls me Bea (Beer)! Self taught musician, songwriter, producer and mixing engineer. I play guitar in FrogLeap and my own Solo material, and create content of guitar gear, and my travels around the world! You can find my music on all streaming platforms...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
Tony L said:
I’m far from being a heavy metal fan, but like any other gene there are really great and really awful recordings. Stuff that has been brickwalled in mastering is going to sound like crap regardless.

FWIW when confronted with those ‘can you accurately spot lossless from an MP3’ AB blind tests that were all the rage about a decade ago I always found distorted guitar amongst the easiest to identify. Most lossy compression just can’t cope with complex waveforms and the tell was always a lack of reverb tails or room cues from the guitar amp mics. Bad mastering has a very similar and even more destructive effect. That said a lot of heavy metal recordings are genuinely awful.
Click to expand...

It kind of makes the case that perhaps perfectly neutral, zero distortion, perfectly revealing set-ups aren't the be all and end all? Not just rock/metal, quite a bit 70/80s stuff sounds so thin and nasty to my ears.

Tony L said:
PS Some can be great though; I acquired a nice early (Vertigo ‘swirl’) pressing of the first Black Sabbath album and it is a really dynamic and alive thing. Great drumming, almost jazz in the way its recorded. A lot of ‘heavy’ new-wave/indie stuff can sound amazing too, e.g. original Wire, Gang Of Four, Minutemen, Firehose etc all sounds incredible, though is mostly vastly diminished in digital reissues.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. My weekend's playlist sorted
 
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