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Replacing storage radiators with something which still uses Economy 7 but can be controlled remotely...

TheFlash

TheFlash

Reiki Audio
Has anyone done this? There is so much bu££sh1t out there about "green", "efficient", "controllable" alternatives I've all but given up.

In my Kendal pad, there is no gas so electrickery* is all we have. I try to spend a week or so there every 4-6 weeks and occasionally share the joy of the place with others. I am on Economy 7 tariff and have a Nest thermostat which controls the immersion heater for the water and tells me what temperature the apartment is... but I can't do anything about changing it other than ask a friend to turn the rads up or down when they're passing.

I want something which similarly stores heat generated using off-peak electricity.
I would like a thermostat to be part of the control system such that the amount of heat stored bears some relation to the current temperature of the apartment.
I want to to control this with a schedule etc but also to asjusrt it remotely with an app.
Ideally, I want this app to be Nest rather than the rad manufacturer's own.

I don't want "instant, controllable heat" which consumes peak rate electricity.
I don't want infrared heaters which also use peak rate electricity and don't actually heat the room air they heat the person; this is clearly the work of the devil.

When I had thre Nest installed, I put in a couple of relays (I think they're called) which would allow me to install a single electric boiler to heat wet rads and control everything remotely; it didn't take me long to realise that this was going to give me the control but wouldn't let me store and use off-peak power. I mention it for completeness.

If anyone has any success stories to share, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks in eager anticipation!

Nigel

*cultural reference: 1970s TV series Catweazle
 
I looked into these fisher future heat heaters but they seemed bogged down by a court case and they couldnt be bothered to send a brochure

Think the other guys are sunflow and they seemed really good .however not sure they do storage heaters so not much good to you really
 
hifinutt said:
I looked into these fisher future heat heaters but they seemed bogged down by a court case and they couldnt be bothered to send a brochure

Think the other guys are sunflow and they seemed really good .however not sure they do storage heaters so not much good to you really
Click to expand...
Thanks but Sunflow were one of the brands I first came across. I booked a "consultation" visit and exchanged a few emails but then dug deeper and deeper and cancelled the visit a few days out. If you know anyone who has actually installed Sunflow and would be pleased to recommend them, please do let me know but otherwise I'll pass.

From memory, and this was 4 years ago, their app allowed you to control your heating from your mobile phone... but not only was it the clunkiest app ever, it basically seemed that you had to be on the same wifi network as your radiators to use it! Fine for many, I'm sure, but not for my use case.
 
Would it work to use cheap electricity to keep the place aired then have a couple of portable gas heaters to turn on when you walk in the door?

The heaters are dirt cheap and last time i worked it out gas cost about 1/3 as much as electricity per unit of heat.

Mine are 5kW max each and soon heat a room, both together in the conservatory heat it when below zero outside.
 
I take it the heat losses are too high for a heat pump to make sense?

While you haven't specifically mentioned it, a Sunamp/Myenergi Eddi combo would do what you want on hot water.
 
gingermrkettle said:
I take it the heat losses are too high for a heat pump to make sense?

While you haven't specifically mentioned it, a Sunamp/Myenergi Eddi combo would do what you want on hot water.
Click to expand...
The combination of its being an apartment and the up-front outlay - not only on the heat pump but also on new wet rads - makes this cost-prohibitive I fear. I do have a flat roof at the rear of my apartment though, so technically it’s feasible and would need a nod from the freehold owner.
 
dweezil said:
Would it work to use cheap electricity to keep the place aired then have a couple of portable gas heaters to turn on when you walk in the door?

The heaters are dirt cheap and last time i worked it out gas cost about 1/3 as much as electricity per unit of heat.

Mine are 5kW max each and soon heat a room, both together in the conservatory heat it when below zero outside.
Click to expand...
Good thought but I suspect freestanding gas heaters would make my insurers raise an eyebrow (and the premium); regardless, I’ll rule them out on aesthetic grounds because I’m very very fussy.
 
dweezil said:
It's amazing how much heat they produce for a little water; we use a 260kW gas heater bank for drying.
Click to expand...
That's true actually, I just did the sums and every 58g of butane gives 90g of water vapour when burned. So a bottle with 5.8kg of butane in it, which is a big bottle, will put 9kg of water into the air. For this you get a lot of heat. Not too disastrous bearing in mind 1 person puts ~500g water into the air in 8 hours while they sleep.
 
The apartment is generally very dry indeed; combined with the size and height of the rooms I think a little moisture would be coped with.
But this is a long way from what I want which is to be able to control the heat in my lair from 180 miles away.
 
TheFlash said:
The apartment is generally very dry indeed; combined with the size and height of the rooms I think a little moisture would be coped with.
But this is a long way from what I want which is to be able to control the heat in my lair from 180 miles away.
Click to expand...
Ah yes. The thing is though that storage heaters can keep the frost off and you can then top up while you are there as necessary. Then again it would be good to be able to turn on the heating an hour before you get in.
 
Bob McC said:
Not sure if these remote controlled storage heaters might do the job.

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Click to expand...
Many of these require the phone/device with the control app on it to be on the same wifi network as the radiators!
These might not be such but as I said up front I’ve been round the houses on this and given up each time because I couldn’t find the right product.
 
Bob McC said:
Not sure if these remote controlled storage heaters might do the job.

Buy WiFi Storage Heaters | Storage Heaters Direct

WiFi storage heaters are a modern way of managing your heating. Control your system from anywhere in the world with handy WiFi connectivity.
www.storageheatersdirect.com www.storageheatersdirect.com
Click to expand...

I guess that shows the crux of the problem, a very expensive way to use expensive energy.

As you've probably noticed i see cheapness as a virtue and i'm not very fussy.
 
TheFlash said:
Has anyone done this? There is so much bu££sh1t out there about "green", "efficient", "controllable" alternatives I've all but given up.

In my Kendal pad, there is no gas so electrickery* is all we have. I try to spend a week or so there every 4-6 weeks and occasionally share the joy of the place with others. I am on Economy 7 tariff and have a Nest thermostat which controls the immersion heater for the water and tells me what temperature the apartment is... but I can't do anything about changing it other than ask a friend to turn the rads up or down when they're passing.

I want something which similarly stores heat generated using off-peak electricity.
I would like a thermostat to be part of the control system such that the amount of heat stored bears some relation to the current temperature of the apartment.
I want to to control this with a schedule etc but also to asjusrt it remotely with an app.
Ideally, I want this app to be Nest rather than the rad manufacturer's own.

I don't want "instant, controllable heat" which consumes peak rate electricity.
I don't want infrared heaters which also use peak rate electricity and don't actually heat the room air they heat the person; this is clearly the work of the devil.

When I had thre Nest installed, I put in a couple of relays (I think they're called) which would allow me to install a single electric boiler to heat wet rads and control everything remotely; it didn't take me long to realise that this was going to give me the control but wouldn't let me store and use off-peak power. I mention it for completeness.

If anyone has any success stories to share, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks in eager anticipation!

Nigel

*cultural reference: 1970s TV series Catweazle
Click to expand...


Dont know about nest by I have Hive, and each rad I put a smart valve on. So now each room is controled by the smart valve. I have not done the math, but I think our gas is down like 20% this year, but there will be all sorts of factors I am sure.

Surely if the apartment is hot, then the nest will tell the boiler not to kick in?
 
We're in the process of buying a flat which uses a weird system i've not seen before. It's got traditional water radiators, but these are fed from a storage tank which is heated on economy 7. Basically there's a hot water storage tank which feeds the hot water + radiators, but this is heated by electricity. I'm rather dubious how efficient this is, but we'll see.

Obviously a system like this would allow you to keep the hot water economy 7, and use the nest system to decide when to heat the flat using the radiators.

The other thing the flat has that I didn't know about is a dual tariff electricity meter, so rather than a separate economy 7 circuit that powers one element in the heating, as I understand it, all electricity use through the meter switches between the two tariffs depending on hours, which seems pretty sensible to me.
 
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