Rega RP8 or update 30 yr old LP12
- Thread starter Bob F
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- rp8 lp12 akito
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
There are some who regard the LP12 as very inaccurate.
Some like the more inaccurate versions and dislike the attempts to make it more accurate.
Some are keen to insult the hearing, taste, good sense and/ or honesty of any who think that any LP12 is either good or accurate.
Some think that various versions are good to varying degrees, and are not offended or infuriated that there is an upgrade path for those who want it, or that non-Linn options exist for many of those steps.
Personally, I like P8s and P10s. I have been (pleasantly) surprised by an Avid, beguiled by a Michell, impressed by an SME - and very, very pleased indeed by a Brinkmann and by a Vertere. However, I had an LP12 about 30 years ago and I have a (very different) LP12 now. Not much of it was bought new.
Imho, you might be happier with an upgraded LP12 (particularly given that best value often means buying at least some bits second-hand), or with one of the other choices - including as an obvious one the excellent Regas. However, reading opinions here won’t tell you which option you like best. What will tell you that is going to a good shop and giving some options a listen.
Were you (for example) to go to Cymbiosis, they will be happy to sell you a Rega. They will also be happy to sell you a second-hand (but mint) arm and power supply, and very possibly a better sub-chassis (from Linn or otherwise, new or otherwise) and perhaps even a new bearing.
Imagine that you hear an LP12 with a s/h Ittok and a Kore sub-chassis (or equivalent) and a s/h Lingo 1 (or even Lingo 4) and maybe even a Karousel bearing. If you don’t like it as much as what you have now, there is your answer.
And if you hear a P8 or P10 and still find it a revelation and a relief after listening for 20 -30 minutes, as many have done, that is an answer too.
And if you end up spending your money instead on Linn bits (old and new) that no-one but you will ever know are there, I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
Good luck!
Some like the more inaccurate versions and dislike the attempts to make it more accurate.
Some are keen to insult the hearing, taste, good sense and/ or honesty of any who think that any LP12 is either good or accurate.
Some think that various versions are good to varying degrees, and are not offended or infuriated that there is an upgrade path for those who want it, or that non-Linn options exist for many of those steps.
Personally, I like P8s and P10s. I have been (pleasantly) surprised by an Avid, beguiled by a Michell, impressed by an SME - and very, very pleased indeed by a Brinkmann and by a Vertere. However, I had an LP12 about 30 years ago and I have a (very different) LP12 now. Not much of it was bought new.
Imho, you might be happier with an upgraded LP12 (particularly given that best value often means buying at least some bits second-hand), or with one of the other choices - including as an obvious one the excellent Regas. However, reading opinions here won’t tell you which option you like best. What will tell you that is going to a good shop and giving some options a listen.
Were you (for example) to go to Cymbiosis, they will be happy to sell you a Rega. They will also be happy to sell you a second-hand (but mint) arm and power supply, and very possibly a better sub-chassis (from Linn or otherwise, new or otherwise) and perhaps even a new bearing.
Imagine that you hear an LP12 with a s/h Ittok and a Kore sub-chassis (or equivalent) and a s/h Lingo 1 (or even Lingo 4) and maybe even a Karousel bearing. If you don’t like it as much as what you have now, there is your answer.
And if you hear a P8 or P10 and still find it a revelation and a relief after listening for 20 -30 minutes, as many have done, that is an answer too.
And if you end up spending your money instead on Linn bits (old and new) that no-one but you will ever know are there, I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
Good luck!
Paul L
coffee lounge for me
Nice post Nick, yes so many choices and personal preferences. I’ve owned and enjoyed Pink Triangle, LP12, Spacedeck, SME10 and enjoyed hearing SL1200G, Gyrodek and more I’ve forgotten. I’d have 3 or 4 alongside my current deck if I was wealthy (1210G, GT-5000, Naia) simply because analogue is fun to me and not because my RP10 disappoints. I like to read how someone is happy with a deck or sound they’ve liked for a long time, no matter which brand.
Always funny reading the keyboard warrior stuff on threads like these when in reality I (like to) think most would sit and enjoy a fellow enthusiast’s system and talk about music.
Always funny reading the keyboard warrior stuff on threads like these when in reality I (like to) think most would sit and enjoy a fellow enthusiast’s system and talk about music.
Tim Jones
pfm Member
I agree with both posts above, and have owned many decks, including LP12s and SMEs - but the entirely reasonable "opinions differ, listening to music is what's important" result should nonetheless leave space for discussions about why physical property X makes for audible result Y.
At the moment I have two decks - a P10 with an MC and a Sony PS6750 DD from 1976 with a (modern) MM. Ultimately, the P10 is by far the better of the two, but the Sony is hugely enjoyable. Having and using both on a regular basis has led me to some pretty firm conclusions as to why - ultimately - if I had to have only one TT, it would not be a direct drive.
At the moment I have two decks - a P10 with an MC and a Sony PS6750 DD from 1976 with a (modern) MM. Ultimately, the P10 is by far the better of the two, but the Sony is hugely enjoyable. Having and using both on a regular basis has led me to some pretty firm conclusions as to why - ultimately - if I had to have only one TT, it would not be a direct drive.
chris geary
pfm Member
I's sorry but I just don't understand two things:
1) my LP-12 makes all my records sound good, even the horrible 1982 hardcore records recorded on quarter inch 8 track and mastered only by the pressing plant (united in nashville). Seriously, from DYS to Christian Death to the Sound, Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, to Sisters of Mercy, Oscar Peterson and John Coltrane - they all sound great.
2) i don't know what you people are fussing about: for the past 10 years, my LP-12 has been sat on its shelf inside a cabinet with the dust cover put away elsewhere. I have not touched it other than to turn the platter on and place the tone arm on the record. The thick dust on my black ittok must be damping some vibration or something. I wipe the fuzz off the stylus with a small paintbrush once in a while. And once a month or so I pull off the felt mat and wave it around outdoors to get rid of some of the dust. Its not fussy, it just works. What are you on about that it is "fussy"?
Still would love to hear the Naia.
1) my LP-12 makes all my records sound good, even the horrible 1982 hardcore records recorded on quarter inch 8 track and mastered only by the pressing plant (united in nashville). Seriously, from DYS to Christian Death to the Sound, Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, to Sisters of Mercy, Oscar Peterson and John Coltrane - they all sound great.
2) i don't know what you people are fussing about: for the past 10 years, my LP-12 has been sat on its shelf inside a cabinet with the dust cover put away elsewhere. I have not touched it other than to turn the platter on and place the tone arm on the record. The thick dust on my black ittok must be damping some vibration or something. I wipe the fuzz off the stylus with a small paintbrush once in a while. And once a month or so I pull off the felt mat and wave it around outdoors to get rid of some of the dust. Its not fussy, it just works. What are you on about that it is "fussy"?
Still would love to hear the Naia.
NickofWimbledon
pfm Member
That all sounds right, and if it works it works.
Mind you, if an LP12 has had a lot of use in the last decade, and still has its springs, you might notice it sounding miraculously different and better after a service.
You might even find that the stylus is a bit less mint than you thought -few go for more than a couple of thousand hours of playing without becoming less good.
chris geary
pfm Member
well, yes i have replaced the cartridge, that doesn't count as fiddling, though, does it?
John
Rack’em Up!
Out of sight, out of mind;-)
It's usual to change the springs and grommets at a service but I honestly don't think it makes a lot of difference. If the grommets are really old and perished fair enough but other than that I don't think they go off. Same with belts. As long as you can get it to run at the right speed I've never heard any difference from replacing the belt. Aftermarket belts accepted of course.
My LP12 has original springs from 1988.
It still sounds marvellous. If it aint broke…..
I adjusted the springs as well as I could when I bought it used in 2005.
The arm board has stayed in position and level relative to the plinth etc since then, despite it being moved a number of times and in the last month a complete house move.
I dont get why people say that they are fussy and in need of constant adjustment.
Belt wise, I have used Linn belts, and Thakker belts and currently one of the revised blue belts.
i like the blue belt.
It has been on my deck for over a year now and I do think it sounds better than the others I have tried but not npby much.
If I had to I would go back to a Thakker belt as I think they are of high quality and I couldn’t really discern any difference to them and the Linn belt except it cost about one third as much.
As I have said before, your mileage may vary. lol
Because there was a time when they were and if they're not set up properly they still can be. They are fragile, finicky things.
That may be so but I Still don’t think that they are as bad as some people say.
According to some people on here and other forums, they go out of tune as soon as you look at them.
I have no plans to change mine anyway.
It remains my all time favourite audio purchase.
Not just because it sounds so good.
It is s delightful thing to operate. Some of that may be down to the Ittok, but no other turntable that I have used has felt so good to simply cue and use.
The thing is up and running in seconds, faultlessly even thought I don’t have mine powered up all the time now.
I learned that lesson with my original Valhalla.
I recapped it when I bought the deck but during lockdown I managed to get a brand new Hercules mk 11 for £190 on ebay.
It was the so called upgraded one with gold fuse etc and I was the only bidder.
Having been in electronics for almost 50 years i really don’t believe that makes the slightest difference to the sound though. lol
Either way it’s a very well made PSU. I made a few minor tweaks to it such a s upgraded and higher value caps and adjusted it to the maximum voltage before clipping, which gives it a very robust sound.
Unlike a Lingo….
The Valhalla caps that I had fitted in 2005 were showing signs of heat fatigue after 15 years.
That is actually not too bad but I always switch off at the mains now.
The thing should see me out now, with a bit of luck. lol
I don't think it will as it's effectively a tweaked Valhalla. You do get 45 though. If you want an upgrade you need to look at a Minos/Zeus which is a totally new design and much more sophisticated. I agree about the original lingo. Linn decided they wanted the LP12 to sound like their CD players I think.I managed to get a brand new Hercules mk 11 for £190 on ebay.
It was the so called upgraded one with gold fuse etc and I was the only bidder.
Having been in electronics for almost 50 years i really don’t believe that makes the slightest difference to the sound though. lol
Bob McC
Living the life of Riley
Excepted
I agree that the Minos Zeus is more sophisticated and gives flexibility regarding phase driving etc.
Im also sure that I would buy a Minos if I didn’t have a Hercules or if I wasn’t happy with it.
However, I am not convinced at all that the Minos would be a significant upgrade in the areas that are of interest to me.
I have said before that I have great s
lol finger trouble….
i have great sound and a lovely looking and useable turntable/arm that has set me back less that £800 in its entirety, excluding cartridges.
I honestly don’t believe that I would get that enough of an improvement in sound quality by going from my modified Hercules to a Minos to make me feel that it was money well spent.
If the Hercules fails though, and i cant fix it than it would be different.
I can say that having spent most of my adult life in the Electronics industry that the basic design of the original Valhalla was fine for the time and for the motor it drives.
It’s main problem is the use of some poor components In the PSU section.
Most of those weaknesses have been mitigated with the Hercules and the PCB and construction of my example anyway, is of a very high quality.
I agree. The Zeus is a worthwhile step up but by and large these things are incremental. I enjoyed the Valhalla and the Majik, even the old capacitor supply, just fine. Not as good as the Minos/Zeus but that doesn't mean they're not enjoyable and there is always something better available.
If you're happy with what you have now you're in an enviable position and you're quite right to stay there. Enjoy your record player.